To ask for a list of jobs that mean that teachers have never had it so good and should stop complaining?

[chicaguapa]

I thought I'd try and equal the number of threads about the Philpots with ones about teaching?

Why oh why does everyone have to have an opinion on teaching? Why is it ok to say 'well if you don't like it, get another job?' Don't people want teachers to teach their children or is everyone planning on home edding?

One argument is that there are other jobs out there that are just as shit. Maybe we could just list the jobs that have all of the following:

A similar level of unrelenting pressure
National expectation & judgement of results
Responsibility for future success of the next generation
Constant derision from service users ie parents/ public
Systematic devaluing of the profession by their employer ie government
Similar annual hours
Same post-graduate qualification level
Same salary

Then all the teachers can say yes, they are shit jobs too. And all the other people can be pleased that the teachers have acknowledged they don't have the only shit job in the world and theirs is just one of them.

Jobs have to fit all of the above criteria or they don't count.

[LooseyMy]

Most government agencies operate the same. I personally have more empathy for people who work with dangerous offenders in prisoners, dealing with assaults and suicide attempts, than teachers.

[youarewinning]

OK freya I stand corrected. There wasn't any 3 year ones when I looked but that was 6 years ago!

[bumperella]

No decent professional deserves to be made to feel that they are lazy or moaners. But the problem is that few people make meaningful career changes so they cannot possibly compare current role to previous one.

Very few jobs that pay as well as teaching (taking into account pension entitlement, maternity pay, job security and the like) involve
(a) less than a 50-hour week, and constand availability via Blackberry (or similar phone/e-mail).
(b) a period of badly-paid graduate training scheme/conversion course.
(c) flixibility of future hours (GENERALLY can go part time when family responsibilities change as a teacher, or do supply work, or go into parallel careers, etc - not as often the case at the same level of seniority in private sector)
and they all have a balance between job satisfaction and the boring crud/paperwork and public 9or media) perception.

I do think if you don't like your job (in its entirety) then you should find something else. You wpn't be doing the job well if you hate it.

[youarewinning]

Ah ha!! Think I know why!!!!! The BA(ed) QTS isn't an honours degree which requires the 6 extra modules studied as discrete subject - this is generally why it takes an extra year.

[Shelly32]

A lot of teachers, especially the ones involved in the pastoral side are contacted by parents whenever/wherever by phone and email. I'm often contacted on my days off via email.

[FreyaSnow]

Youarewinning, from what I understand from friends who are training to be teachers, various universities have made the BA Ed into a three year course because of the huge rise in tuition fees. It covers exactly the same as the four year course but the students have to work harder over the three years to fit it all in.

I think that is generally a good thing because it saves students a lot of money, and many people would be put off teaching by the expense of the four year degree course.

[youarewinning]

Makes sense Freya - I did a quick google and load of 3 year degrees. I was going from what I researched 6/7 years ago. Shame this thread is 2013 and my knowledge was outdated!

[DreamingOfTheMaldives]

Legal aid lawyer

[Trills]

YABU

[Lexie1970]

Reading all these posts has made me think...... Teachers appear to have 13 weeks holiday a year but due to planning and preparation, does it happen to drop down to the basic 5.6 weeks that Ms Average gets ...... The perception is that teachers work 9-3 but we are informed they work longer hours ..... More on a par with the conventional hours Ms Average works?.... Just wondering - do teachers actually work the 37.5 week but it is condensed into fewer weeks in the year so they can say the working t&c's are unfair .... As I said, just wondering....

[balia]

Systematic devaluing of the profession by their employer ie government

I think one of Gove's areas of specialism is misleading the public and getting them to focus on things like holidays and teacher moaning. When in fact his policies actively disadvantage children and young people. I'll be striking, not because I'm a lazy moaner, but because I've seen these policies in action and what they do to students who are already disadvantaged. Students who can't go to FE because the EMA was cut. Students who don't apply to Uni because of the debt. Students who are taught by unqualified teachers because we just can't recruit trained staff and now the students don't have an entitlement to be taught by one anyway.

It is vital to remember that as the government seek to devalue teachers for their own political ends, they do it by devaluing the qualifications achieved by thousands of young people who worked hard.

[chicaguapa]

That's what I think Lexie. On average they probably have a fairly typical workload if you average it out over the year. So maybe people should cut them some slack over the holidays by accepting they're entitled to them as time off in lieu of the extra hours that are put in during the term time?

Half terms aren't holidays, they're just non-directed, non-contact time spent doing school work. Perhaps not solidly from 8-3 though, but it's not relaxing, switch off time. You are expected to use that time to get on top of things and wouldn't have any excuses why something hadn't been done if you had been on school holidays.

I would say 1 week at Easter and 1 at Christmas could be treated as that too. By that I mean that you couldn't go away for 2 weeks at Easter and not fall behind on school work. You'd either take it with you or just go away for one week. Or you'd be running revision classes so can't go away anyway.

So that leaves the 6 weeks over the summer, which all things being well you could switch off from school until the results come out when you go in for a day. Then the following week before you go back you go in to sort your classroom out and get set up for the new school year.

So I don't think the holidays, where the time is your own and you are at liberty to do exactly what you want, are significant. There are obvious advantages in being off when the DC are, which shouldn't be underestimated. But that's offset against the inflexibility of time off and only ever being able to go away during the holidays.

For people who work flat out all year and get 5.6 weeks holiday, it must be galling when they think teachers are complaining about it. But I genuinely think they aren't. They're just responding to criticism that they get them at all.

[juniper9]

FreyaSnow my uni changed from 4 years to 3 years the year after I started, so there were twice as many students graduating in the same year (and only the same number of jobs )

My degree is a BA Hons Primary Education with QTS and I'm trained in 3-11, having done 5 teaching practices.

The people who did the 3 year course had to choose 3-7 or 5-11, and they only did 3 teaching practices.

Most people I work with did a PGCE, but personally I think the BA / BEd gives you a greater insight into the reality of teaching, and the pedagogy etc. I don't have a specialist subject as such, but then in primary schools we only expect to teach to level 6 (unless there are exceptional cases) and that is year 9/10 level at best. Teachers should be able to do this across the board although many can't, but that's a different AIBU

[chicaguapa]

I think one of Gove's areas of specialism is misleading the public and getting them to focus on things like holidays and teacher moaning

I looked him up on Wiki and didn't know he used to be a journalist. Which speaks volumes IMO as he knows exactly what to say to manipulate people's opinions. Soundbites such as 'I feel sorry for the parents who have to sort out childcare' (during the strike) which plants the seed that teachers are providing childcare. Another that they will reward teachers who don't work 9-3, thus planting the seed that teachers work 9-3 and those who don't are the exception.

It scares me how many people are unknowingly manipulated this way. That's why I get so annoyed by the comment 'gold-plated pensions' as that's a sound bite from Gove or that other irritating idiot. It says to me that someone is just repeating something they've heard or read, without understanding what that means. A teacher's pension is not gold-plated, Unlike the MPs' pension scheme, which is. In my company, non public sector, there are thousands of people who are still accruing at 1/60 at 7.5% contributions. It's not common, but it's not reserved just for the public sector and it doesn't make it plated with gold.

Instead of attacking the public workers, who let's face it we couldn't be without as they provide our services, why is it so bloody hard to support the people who are helping shape our DC's futures, caring for us when we're ill and making sure DC in the country are being looked after and treated right? And what's wrong in making them feel valued and letting them feel like we think they're doing a good job for us?

[tethersend]

I'm a teacher who works for social services.

Do I win £5?

[freerangeeggs]

"A serious question - why do you do all those things if they make you so overworked and don't add anything of value? Why don't you all get together and try to change things? If all teachers said we are no longer doing xyz, what would happen? You couldn't all get fired and the govt would have to listen

You are getting treated like shit because you are allowing it to happen.The policies are brought in with a good intention, I'm sure, but the govt needs to know that all the papetwork is hindering instead of enabling progress, which ultimately affects our children"

An excellent question! I'm a teacher and have had big debates with colleagues about this. I don't know why teachers don't stand up against this. It's insane. We're perpetuating it by accepting it and damaging our children as a result.

There are a lot of martyrs in teaching. I'm not prepared to become one, myself.

[manicinsomniac]

what an odd thread!

Teaching isn't a shit job! Personally I think it's the best job in the world (aside from being a professional dancer, actress, olympian or fantasy type jobs like that!).

Great salary, great holidays, working with children all day, relative job security, varied tasks and family friendly. It's perfect.

I can't believe I'm lucky enough to get paid to do something that's so much fun. Yes okay, sometimes there is hard work involved. But what job doesn't have that. And I would say the fun outweighs the work several times over.

[Gingerodgers]

Slightly off the point here, but wanted to say that I have huge respect for the teachers at my kids' school. I happen to think they work very hard for their money which is equivalent to a nurses salary. I used to be a nurse, so while it is certainly a liveable wage, it hardly makes you rich. I also can't believe anyone would consider a free school, where teachers are unqualified, that's like homeschooling without the work. It is part of a bigger picture of dumbing down, anyone can be a teacher (yeah right) it all plays a part in the general lack of respect for all professionals which society encourages these days. Yet, degrees often don't seem to worth the paper they are written on these days, coz every buggers got one! Anyway rant over.

[Toadinthehole]

I agree re hours.

But if you try and tell the young people today that.. and they won't believe you.

[ilovechips]

These threads are really irritating! Is it a competition to see who has the most stressful job? I have no axe to grind at all and have no strong opinions re teaching but do get tired of hearing teachers say oh well we can never switch off etc - do teachers think everyone else finishes work, on time, and doesn't give it a second thought until the next day? I don't know anyone who has that luxury. A teacher on another thread yesterday said she envied "every other job" where you can take coffee breaks whenever you like. Again, I've never encountered this! I'm not anti teacher or anti anyone - I think we all have stressful jobs and these threads don't add anything.

[exoticfruits]

This sort of thread doesn't add anything,but I think that because most people have been to school, or have children in school, they have a perception of the job. I think the irritating part is that a lot if it is completely wrong - as in ' you have done the lesson planning once, you can just trot it out every year the same'. Yes, you can do but it isn't what I would want for my children- tired teachers trotting out tired lessons- and very boring for the teacher. I would prefer a teacher who was enthusiastic about it and looking for new resources, new ways of putting it across and who realised that if the children are different you can't just 'trot it out'.
Of course other jobs are just as tiring etc etc but they are not getting the bashing that teachers get. I think some people want robots who live in a cupboard at school!

[Fairylea]

Bookie office manager. 60 hours a week and they won't pay overtime and you can't get accrued time backas its always too busy. Most of the customers are pissed and spend the day telling you to fuck off.. and the salary for all this ? -£15k.

And its a huge multi national company. Not a small independent one.

[EuniceDumbsdown]

BA (Hons) in any subject = level 5 qualification
PGCE and/or QTS = level 6 qualification
MA in any subject = level 7 qual
PhD = level 8 qual

[CharlotteBronteSaurus]

I wouldn't teach for all the tea in China, regardless of the holidays/pay, so I am very glad that others do, and do it well.

However, I do think one genuine positive of teaching is that the long hours can be put in at home, when your own DC are in bed, having been collected from childcare, fed and watered. I am a SW, DH a police officer, and I hate having the Top Trumps conversations at 5.15pm about whose work-based emergency is more pressing, thereby meaning the other will have to leave for the childcare run.