to think that people have unrealistic expectations from Nannies?

[TheSeventhHorcrux]

I'm looking for my next Nanny position and have been scouring the net for private ads (am registered with many agencies too) but can't seem to find any ads for families that seem to have realistic expectations. Of course, there is a recession going on and I have put that down for the difficulty getting another role but...

Here's an example:

We are looking for someone who can work around 45 hours plus two evenings babysitting per week, in sole charge of our 4 year old twins and 6 year old. Term time hours are Tuesday-Friday (7.15-6.30) with the boys at nursery every morning and our daughter at school. During school holidays it will be Wednesday-Friday all day from 7.15-6.30. Although we do ask for some flexibility about the days. Babysitting may be any evening. The working pattern may change as needed, subject to negotiation. The pay is £150 per week plus board and lodging.

It seems that board and lodging are a fair exchange for pay.

Am I being unreasonable to think that £350-400 npw for 12 hours days + board and lodging is a fair expectation as an experienced, qualified nanny? Or have I got my head in the clouds?

(expecting to be flamed but be kind, its been a long day!)

[ZebraOwl]

LongDistance

I was thinking the same thing. Presumably GumTree is the modern equivalent of the wishlist up the chimney.

I also suspect they've watched Nanny McPhee a few too many times &/or are hoping for the sort of Nanny Noel Streatfeild used to write about.

Does seem to be part of the trend in a wide range of fields to ask ridiculous things of people & pay a pittance because the state of the job market makes that kind of exploitation possible. Ugh.

[MrsLouisTheroux]

So they are asking for someone to be at their beck and call all week, be with their DC (all 3 of them) from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed in exchange for a room/food and a tiny bit of pocket money. Very tempting .

[MummytoKatie]

They might be able to get someone from September once the younger ones go to school but it would like be "student who likes kids" or maybe "student who pretends to like kids" not a proper nanny.

Where I live the equivalent nursery + afterschool club costs would be about £1500 a month not including the babysitting. And I live in the North where everything is really cheap!

[compoundinterest]

Well, I've always said, "If you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys...".

Trouble is, at the moment jobs are so thin on the ground that decent people are accepting these jobs. I can't believe how dramatically salaries have been downgraded. Not sure how anyone is going to get on the property ladder. Thankfully it doesn't affect us!

There are genuinely lots of jobs in the care industry. Pay is low but industry is being driven by an ageing population. I know someone who runs a 'Mary Poppins' type company mainly helping older people. She is rushed off her feet. She pays people about £10 per hour but just can't get the staff (or decent ones anyway). She doesn't do anything out of the ordinary, sits with people, helps them to sort paperwork, does a bit of cleaning, takes them shopping and to the doctor, etc. Obviously need a clear CRB.

Definitely worth a thought...

[rainrainandmorerain]

This is imteresting - I had no idea there was a shortage of nanny jobs out there.

I do think that for a lot of parents, their working hours/patterns mean they are looking for looking for help which is just crazy hours (v early starts, long days etc) - which means they need a 'premium service' childcare arrangement, but aren't necessarily in high paying jobs which would allow them to pay a lot of money for a 'bespoke' childcare service.

However, I also think, from umpteen conversations with other parents, that childcare is undervalued as a job, and the ability to pay for it gets mixed up with the feeling that it isn't skilled work, and they shouldn't be paying much for it. When it descrbied dismissively as 'just wiping arses and noses and singing a few songs' (and other variants) then obvs you aren't dealing with people expecting to pay more than a pittance for carers.

[valiumredhead]

Ha ha they are confusing Nanny with Au Pair and even then the hours are ridiculous!

[ConfusedPixie]

YADNBU. I'm starting to browse as my charge goes to nursery at some point between September and January (I thought it was September but things change!) and people want to pay less than £6 an hour for a nanny with five years experience and CRBd, etc. Don't want to be employers either. I'm dreading looking for work when my job comes to an end!

The worst ones are usually titled "Live-out au pair/childminder" though

The problem is, they can get away with it because people are going for it. I'm guessing you're more experienced than me so have a better chance but I'm not that experienced, this is my second year of live-out nannying, I've had 15 months of live-in nannying (two jobs) before and therefore am stuck in this rut between those who will go for those jobs, and the people who are willing to employ/pay reasonably but want more experience :(

[Bobyan]

They don't want a nanny they want a slave.

[Echocave]

Sorry if I've missed something in an earlier post but why don't you sign up to an agency? Central London even live in earn way more than that. As far as I'm aware, you don't earn more for additional children so look for a smaller family.

[saintlyjimjams]

Babysitting maybe any evening

You're clearly not allowed to plan your own social life if you work with that couple. The thing about that ad though is at least you know they'll be dreadful so you don't make the mistake of applying.

[IHopeYouStepOnALegoPiece]

I went for an interview last week (Pay wasn't mentioned in the ad!)

They wanted a 40pw nanny for £800 pm live out


Although there are so few jobs right now, I'm crapping myself!

[saintlyjimjams]

They wanted a 40pw nanny for £800 pm live out
How can they offer that? Surely it's below the minimum wage?

One thing you could look into is things like tutoring on ABA programmes with autistic kids, or working with families with kids with SN. I get money from social services to employ people to help out with our three children (one severely autistic, 2 NT) and pay £10/hour. Bit of a change/move but if nannying is turning into slave labour perhaps something to think about. One of the best people I've ever employed was an ex nursery nurse (she is fab with NT ds3 who can be a complete PITA as well!)

[saintlyjimjams]

BTW the £10 an hour is never sole charge - it's either helping me out or taking ds1 out with someone else also paid the same amount. And I live nowhere near London.

[dinkystinky]

Our wonderful nanny is an ex au pair plus/live in nanny - the stories she tells me about a couple of the families she worked for make my jaw drop. They did indeed expect her to be a slave for minimum wage. She has nanny friends in the area who work for friends of the mum - I dont think they've managed to keep a live in nanny for more than 3 months since she left nearly 7 years ago (whereas she's been with us that whole time as a live out nanny).

[EldonAve]

In your example ad the kids are at nursery & school - it's an aupair plus job really

[Farewelltoarms]

Op we had live-in nanny-housekeeper for a while. She worked 40 hours a week (3 fixed days, cleaning she could do when she liked eg when littlest was at nursery for two hours etc in other words could incorporate the hours into her other days).
Pay, £350 pw net.
Wh seems more what you're after...

[saintlyjimjams]

Snap childcare worth looking at if nannying for kids with SN interests you. Looking through the job the pay is decent. Most seem to be between 13 and 30 an hour! Of course experience helps.

[ceeveebee]

Eldon
In your example ad the kids are at nursery & school - it's an aupair plus job really

Err - the 4 yr old twins at nursery in the morning so that's probably a 3 hour session leaving 2 hours of child-free time a day. No doubt having to use that time for laundry etc. So its definately a full time job and well below minimum wage (you can only allow £34 per week to be deducted for accommodation for nmw calculation purposes). Total slave labour.
I pay around that salary PER DAY for my nanny to look after my twins (live out though)

[LadyHarrietdeSpook]

I do think that for a lot of parents, their working hours/patterns mean they are looking for looking for help which is just crazy hours (v early starts, long days etc) - which means they need a 'premium service' childcare arrangement, but aren't necessarily in high paying jobs which would allow them to pay a lot of money for a 'bespoke' childcare service.

This is it, in a nutshell. If we had used a full time live out nanny at the going rate in London with tax on top for all the hours we needed it would have cost £36-42K per year. Non starter for us, so over the years we've had to cobble together various solutions to get where we needed to be.

[Pigsmummy]

I think it has been badly advertised. It looks like drop off for all three kids in the morning, school and nursery. Then afternoon taking care of two boys then after school care for girl. What is the nanny meant to be doing whilst children are at school/nursery? Hours don't add up. If it is half the hours and live in then it's not such a bad deal? renting a room could be £500+ a month depending where you are?

[TheSeventhHorcrux]

My usual wage is £350-£400 net per week which sounds a lot but thats for a 7-7 days, making all meals (for children), tidying up/cleaning up after them, school runs if necessary, nursery duties, laundry, shopping, any odd jobs that need doing on top of entertaining and teaching the children, taking them out, changing nappies, etc etc.

For parents that have 2 or more children under 5, a live in nanny is cheaper than a nursery. But its not in the culture up here so I have to look in London.

I'm starting to get more and more concerned as these seem to be the only kind of jobs advertised.

saintlyjimjams - would LOVE to do something like that, especially as I'm doing a psychology degree (PT Open Uni) but have no idea how you would get into that kind of thing with no SN experience...

[Pigsmummy]

Also there is no mention of cleaning in ad so it might not be as bad as it suggests?

[TheSeventhHorcrux]

Pigsmummy - the job also includes housekeeping (I only copied the main bit of the ad) and what about when the children are ill? Plus renting a room could be £500+ a month - but living in your own rented room is very different to living in your workplace.

[Kiriwawa]

That is absolutely dreadful :(

And what's the point of having a room in central London when you have to work 45 hours a week (plus 2 nights babysitting)

[saintlyjimjams]

Theseventh when I employ people I'm more interested in willingness etc than lots of experience. Some of the best people I've had came to me with no experience. If you had time around your main job you could look for odd- hours work with playschemes/respite centres etc. Each area usually has a SN newsletter and you could see whether you could put a little bit in there saying you are looking for PA (personal assistant) work (that's the official name fore type that I offer - paid by direct payments). Or even start with babysitting.

And I'd recommend this www.amazon.co.uk/Makaton-Nursery-Rhymes-DVD/dp/B000IHZ4FG?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 as a good way of starting to learn Makaton (often useful)

Once you're working with one or two people you name will spread - I always struggle to find people!