To be worried about 'passive smoking' from an electronic cigarette

[Ewhats]

So my dm is a heavy smoker who smokes indoors so ever sinse I had my dc I have avoided going round to her house...although she never smoked when we were there I hated going round and coming out with a baby smelling of smoke. So me and my DM have had endless problems due to me avoiding her house with dc. I would never have expected my DM to stop smoking in her own house for me and dc but I did expect her to understand why I preferred her to visit us instead.

So after months of arguments about smoking my DM has decided to try and stop smoking tobacco cigarettes by smoking electronic cigarettes instead. she really enjoys them that much she is no longer smoking tobacco cigs....which is great...her house no longer smells and they apparently don't contain all the awful chemicals a real cigarettes does.

BUT....what is concerning me is that she is convinced they are safe for public use and they a not actually classed as cigarettes she just puffs on it now in the house if me and dc go round. It just concerns me what the vapour contains...apparently it's nothing toxic.....but 50 years ago tobacco cigarettes were also thought to be safe....and even though e cigarrettes are allowed to be used in public i just don't trust how safe the vapour is around my dc

I have googled but all I can find is articles saying they are safe but generally from the companies that sell them....so they are obviously going to say that!

I don't know if I am been too fussy though and abit pfb....I just feel, worried about her using it infront of dc in case it does contain anything too bad...are these things even regulated properly.

All my family think I am been OTT and laugh when I ask it not to be used infront of dc....they laugh and say there's nothing harmful on the vapour these e-cigarettes produce.

So AIBU to not want an electronic cigarette to be used in front of dc (in the same room) as so little is known about them and there affects on public health...

I want to encourage my DM to stay away from the tobacco cigarettes and support her but I just don't feel comfortable an e cigarette been used in front of dc... Is that UR or am I been neurotic?

Thanks

[mumofweeboys]

I hate the fact people can use them indoors. One mum was sitting in the middle of toddler group smoking one ffs. I dont want my children seeing that.

Dh is keen to get one but id rather he just tried to give up again.

[SoleSource]

Yabu and controlling

[slpj]

Who's yabu?

Is water considered safe to drink with some of the components of ant-freeze and brake fluid? No it's not. So why risk inhaling it, however small the amounts?

[Sallystyle]

Great post meddie

[PearlyWhites]

Yabu it is water chill out.

[slpj]

Explain precisely why it's a logical fallacy. What is?

I'm not presenting any alternatives.

I'm presenting another side of the opinion that says E-cigs are completely safe. There is evidence that contradicts that argument.

Sure, there are always alternatives. We could still have slavery. It wasn't bad for everybody after all. We could still allow smoking in pubs. Not everybody gets a smoking related disease. My g/father smoked all his life and died at 90 in otherwise good health, from a fractured skull when he fell down the stairs. He would have laughed at that, had he lived.

The original poster was worried about e-cigs around her child. Had she known that they contain traces of the same chemicals found in tobacco, ant-freeze, and brake fluid, she might still be worried.

Yes there are pollutants all over the place. Is that therefore a logical argument for the introdction of additional pollutants?

Why do there seem to be a number of people who object to making the world as safe as it can be?

[Dawndonna]

Thalidomide was really quite safe, except for a some unfortunate people for whom it wasn't.
Is it logical fallacy day on Mumsnet today.
It's not a black or white argument, sipj You are presenting two alternatives, whereas, in fact, many exist.

[slpj]

There was no reason at all to ban smoking anything in public places was there. After all, just standing in the street you breathe in all that noxious air. what difference a little more from smokers in a pub?

Lets not restrict any harmful substance, freedom of choice is far more important.

Let's allow anyone to produce anything that hasn't been fully tested. Thalidomide was really quite safe, except for a some unfortunate people for whom it wasn't.

Most of you are obviously freedom lovers at any costs.

Doesn't affect me at all though, because as ThreeDudesOnABus guessed, I do in fact live on a remote tripical island in SE Asia. :).

[ThreeDudesOnABus]

Is it nice on that remote island with all that lovely fresh air?

[meddie]

A lot of countries are banning them yes. But then their governments are under a lot of pressure from the tobacco industries and pharmaceutical industries to do so.. I wonder why that is....

I make my own juices , they contain. nicotine,propylene glycol/glycrein and a flavour if you so wish.. the vapour produced is exactly the same as that which you see produced at discos, concerts etc and is considered safe and in fact even has a mild anti viral,antispetic quality. It is not anti freeze and the Propylene is food grade and has been considered safe for many many years. its used as a carrier in some asthma inhalers. its only listed side effect is that in large quantities my by an irritant.

Interesting study produced by Professor Christina Gratziou, who is Chair of the European Respiratory Society Tobacco Control Committee. im sure she is completely unbiased considering she fails to disclose that she receives or has recently received funding from pharmaceutical companies to research the effectiveness of NRT products (nicotine replacement therapy).

E-cigs are proving hugely successful in switching people from a product that contains approx 4000 toxic and cancer causing chemicals To one that contains 4 chemicals ( I equate this to a heroin user switching to methadone). none of which have been shown to be carcinogenic in decades of use and testing. Whereas NRT products only have a 4% chance of getting you off the fags long term.

I expect e cigs will be banned or restricted soon in the UK, only because the governement, the tobacco industry and the pharmaceutical companies potentially stand to lose a large chunk of profit from a captive audience.

[sparechange]

slpj if you want a better idea of why they are banned, have a read of this:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/05/e-cigarettes-tobacco-harmless-enjoyable

To your other points, pubs and airlines have banned them because they look like real cigarettes and it might be confusing to staff and customers who think someone is actually smoking.

And no, they have't been proven safe. Nor has drinking orange juice. Or eating toast. Probably best stop your children from that as well

[slpj]

It took me 10 mins or less to find this thread.

Why do you care if I "drag" it up?

[YourMaNoBraBackOfMyCar]

Why drag it up again? ba dum dum - chhhhh!

[TheRealFellatio]

What Worra said.

[Dawndonna]

How long did it take you to find this thread? Why drag it up again?

[slpj]

Hold on there Ewhats.

You are right to be concerned, and too quick to accept the opinions of people who like the "vapous".

It's "NOT" just water vapour that comes out from the end, or when exhaled.

1. THERE IS NO HARD AND CONFIRMED EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE SAFE.
   
2. THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE NOT SAFE.
   
   Some of the contents are also found in Brake fluid, and Anti-freeze. Is that safe to inhale?
   
   Lung experts say they are harmful.
   www.pharmatimes.com/article/12-09-03/Do_not_touch_e-cigarettes_say_lung_experts.aspx
   
   Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) bans ad claiming that e-cigs are "completely harmless".
   www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/news/archive/cancernews/2013-01-17-Electronic-cigarette-claims-banned
   
   They are banned in Brazil and Singapore and subject to medical restrictions in Canada, Australia, France and Japan. In 2009, concerns about the safety of e-cigarettes were raised in America.
   
   An analysis of e-cigarette products by a UK government watchdog found diethylene glycol, a toxic chemical, in one cartridge, while tobacco-specific nitrosamines ? which can cause cancer ? were found in half of the samples.
   
   A Witherspoons pub recently prohibited the use of vaping inside the pub.
   
   One person vaping might pose little risk to the public, certainly far less than tobacco. However --- NOBODY has tested the long term effects of the inhaled or exhaled products, on anyones lungs. LET ALONE a childs lungs.
   
   Safe around "passive smokers"?
   
   It's your child. He or she may thank you later in life for being so protective.

[Ewhats]

again thanks for the replies

so the general consensus is that the vapour is safe....and i'm actually glad most people thought IWBU cos that means i will now chill out about it.....just paranoid about safety of any form of passive smoking from cigarettes (tobacco and electric) as i recently had to watch my DGF who was like a df to me die of lung cancer...so its not that i need to get over myself but that i was genuinely worried the vapour was harmful.

i am not so worried about dc seeing my dm smoke a fake cigarette...that wasn't the issue.... obviously it would be preferable for dc not to see smoking but we have smokers in the family and when we are outside in summer i can't expect everyone not to smoke just so dc doesn't see it. as long as dc isn't been exposed to anything nasty then thats all i was worried about.

so thanks and i will now get a grip

[pansyflimflam]

pfb so please get a grip

[WilsonFrickett]

Worried while of course it would be infinitely preferable for no-one to smoke at all, let alone around children, people do smoke. So while I do agree with you to a point, if it's a choice between a cigarette and an electronic cigarette, the electronic cig is better. My DM really isn't bothered that my DS sees her smoking - which of course I am both and about, but nothing I can do will change her. I would love her to try electronic cigarettes, if the truth be known. I now see my mum as a person who is making a conscious choice to die early

[Sallystyle]

And I vape in my local pub around other children too.

No one has ever had a problem with it that I know about. Even most restaurants are happy for people to vape.

[Sallystyle]

I use my e-cig around my children all the time.

They know how much I struggled to quit and were really excited for me when I first got my e-cig. I don't think I am setting a bad example. They have seen the realities for nicotine addiction and how tough it is to quit.

Sure, it would have been a better example if I never started but I certainly don't think using an e-cig is a bad example especially if you talk about the struggles of quitting smoking.

I use a tornado tank so mine is huge and looks nothing like a ciggie either.

They are not dangerous and I think if more people used these as a way of quitting they would have better results. Even if people only replace ciggies with the e-cig and use it for life it is 1000% times better than smoking.

[WorriedTeenMum]

WilsonFrickett - My DF also died of a smoking related cancer. I am absolutely determined to do anything I can to stop my DCs from being tempted to smoke. I would not have been happy having a close relative hauling away on a fake cigarette in front of my DCs when they were small.

Now they are older and can understand, the message we give is that Uncle X while lovely in all other regards is a stupid fool where it comes to smoking.

[FurryDogMother]

I've just stopped smoking (after 40 years) using an e-cig - the ones that look like real cigarettes are not the best. I'm using a kit that allows me to buy a load of different flavours (currently vaping a chocolate/coffee mix), and works out to be much cheaper than smoking ever was. I've done a lot of reading about the dangers too, but can't find anything that worries me. If it's the fact that the e-cig looks like a real one that is bothering the OP (amongst other things), then suggest a change to the non-lookalike versions. They're much nicer in every way.

I can't tell you how delighted I am to be free of cigarettes after all these years, and because the 'juices' that you vape are available in various nicotine strengths, right down to 0, I see it as a way of finally quitting the nicotine altogether, over time. I think all smokers should be encouraged to use these things, myself.

[WilsonFrickett]

Having watched my GM die of lung cancer (as a child), and now preparing to watch my DM die of the similar disease (she has early stage lung failure but will not stop smoking), yes you are BU. There are far, far worse things for a children to see than a fake cigarette.

Get over yourself.

[acceptableinthe80s]

Whilst I don't think they pose any health risks to your dc I do think it's pretty bad form to smoke in front of children full stop, regardless of what your smoking.
Not exactly setting a great example.
Can't your dm just smoke it outside when you visit?
My dm smokes but stopped smoking in the house completely when the grandchilden came along.