to think I should be allowed to play in the men's team

[ICBINEG]

The local badminton league has no women's league but has a mixed league and a men's league.

For those not immersed in the world of badminton, mixed is essentially a different game to the 'levels' version played in men's / women's leagues.

I don't particularly enjoy playing mixed and would much prefer to play on the men's team.

The local league rules allow women to play in the men's league however the men's team captain has stated that women will only play on the mens team as a last resort (ie when it's that or not get a team out at all) because apparently it would be humiliating for men to play women (and lose ).

So yes...I am being unreasonable to think I should get the same shot at the men's team as everyone else?

[Primrose123]

ha! me play at the net? Not likely - I am SHIT at the net.

It's certainly going to be hard to hide my post DD G-cup boobs....and try and pass for male....

ICBINEG Are you sure you're not actually me? We sound awfully alike!

[ReallyTired]

"If you had a womens league/team would you let men play in it ? "

If there were no men's league then it would be unfair to have a women's only league. Either there should be two seperate leagues for men and women or one open league. It is wrong that the men can play in two leagues (ie. the mens and the mixed) and the women can only play in one league (ie.the mixed)

The mixed league is a totally different game because it follows different rules to the men.

[mollymole]

If you had a womens league/team would you let men play in it ?

[ICBINEG]

who yes I think I have played that before now I think of it....We could do that. Or they could relabel it as an open league and we could all get on happily...

[ICBINEG]

It's certainly going to be hard to hide my post DD G-cup boobs....and try and pass for male....

Gah life is too short for sticking with mixed....I find it stressful and limiting to spend all my time at the net.

Theres no point spending your precious free time doing less that what you might.

Actually if I took that previous sentence seriously I would indeed leave and join a new club.

Oh well...some pondering to do.

[Whoknowswhocares]

For what it's worth, many leagues do run with a 4 person team. Each person in team plays as a 'number' 1 being the best player, 4 the worst.
You play with each of the team members but always play against the corresponding numbered player on the opposition.
EG. You are player 1. You play every game where your number comes up......
1 and 2 of each team play first, then
3 and 4
1 And 3
2 and 4
1 and 4
2 and 3
So 6 points up for grabs in total.

Having said all that, I'd move clubs. Probably travel a bit further to a better standard league, with proper women's teams. Oh, and stick with the mixed, it will improve your overall game no end to sort out your short game!

[ReallyTired]

A similar parallel is the cathedral church choirs who were forced to set up girl choirs and boy choirs or have mixed choirs. A badminton league should have equal opportunites for both sexes otherwise its illegal. If there are are not enough players for a women's league then it should be an open league. There is nothing wrong with having a "mens league" if there is is a women's league.

Clearly the OP is better at badminton than many men.

Are there any other teams you could play for or a league in a different town? I suggest you contact Badminton England.

[Fillyjonk75]

I think if you're the right standard, it doesn't matter what gender you are.

[LessMissAbs]

I thought it was pretty much given that women play/race/compete against men when a similar level of performance?

I'd simply insist, turn up and start playing.

I bet the sports centre or team or some structure involved has got public funding at some point, which is covered by a duty to be non-discriminatory, so they risk losing that if a complaint of sex discrimination is upheld...

Agree that it shouldn't be called a "men's league" anyway.

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

ventilatormum I haven't played badminton competitively for years, well since 1993 if I'm honest, so can't really answer that from an adult club player's perspective. I was an ok player - captained the school team, which was top of our league, but couldn't beat any of the boys of the same age. Just could never do it. Maybe I just didn't try hard enough, but they were faster and stronger and so they beat me.

[ventilatormum]

i find this strangely fascinating - and I have never played badminton. Levels, leagues, all very interesting.
What makes a female player different from a man? Apart from the obvious (her sex), is she weaker? slower? less skilled?
surely if the club wants to put out the best team it should pick the best players, regardless of sex.
Who decides if you are a female or a male player? For example, if a stranger turned up at the club and it was impossible to tell male or female, would he/she not be put with players of a similar standard? would anyone go up to him/her and demand proof of gender?
Why not just buy a t shirt which proclaims "I am male", wear it and let the opposition challenge your gender, if they dared. (P S I am assuming you look more female than male).
What happens if you get a brilliant junior, can you play him/her in a senior team? or would the captain think seniors would not like being beaten by a junior.
Hey ho. Just some idle musing.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Sorry, that was to morph not IC, in case it's not obvious.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Yes, they certainly might, but that's not the reason the captain put foward.

I can see why there are often reasons why women's teams are best being single-sex, and sometimes also reasons why men's teams are, but I don't think the OP should have to accept this as a reason when the rules do not support it and it is offensive and discriminatory to her.

[ICBINEG]

There is no symmetry here as there is no women's league.

I think in any given league system there should be initially an open league. To encourage participation across the board. If that gets filled up then they can start opening niche divisions for the 'can't stand man cooties', 'can't stand woman cooties' and 'love playing in unbalanced partnerships' subsections of society.

But seriously, at the local league level, my gender is no more a limitation of my performance than my hair colour....so you may as well ask why shouldn't someone set up a red heads only league?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

If they need to stay exclusively men, that's one thing - but it's not what the OP is describing. She says they've already got a rule saying women can join in. Presumably this pre-dates the current captain who is insisting it'd be too humiliating for the men if he followed the rules.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Is there are reason why our responses should be the same, morph, out of interest?

Mine would be: if someone said men could play as a last resort, but that women found it embarrassing to lose to them, I would think that was wrong too, albeit for slightly different reasons since the cultural attitudes towards women being beaten by men are not the same as those towards men being beaten by women.

But I'm curious why you seem to be implying it'd be wrong not to think the same of a different situation?

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

I must admit, I am used to playing DH and DBIL so I play quite tough, cant imagine playing singles with other women.........I like to play hard :)

I love singles, not keen on doubles, like to know if I lose it's my fault.

[ICBINEG]

Just not enough people for a womens league. Although given everyone can manage a mixed team I suppose we could play a format based on 3 or 4 people....

hmm maybe

AB v AB
CD v CD
A v A
C v C
BD v BD?

Would still be crap as we have destroyed opposition women....can't really imagine playing them at doubles let alone singles....

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

YANBU - if the rules state you can play in the mens league they should let you.

I love badminton

Any chance you could start a womens league at all? Enough Interest?

[EauRouge]

'Last resort' 'humiliating to be beaten by a woman'

Wow, what century is this guy in? If you're good enough to be on the team, you should be on the team. Why choose someone who might not be as good as you just because they have a wang? It's not like a penis is essential equipment required to play the game, is it? This is silly and the reason he gave you for you not being allowed in is rude and sexist. YANBU.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Also the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation may be able to help...

//www.wsff.org.uk

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Sorry - with linkys

//www.badmintonengland.co.uk