To be miffed at prospective landlords not accepting children in a rented property

[MolotovCocktail]

We are looking to rent a larger property. We want to remain in the same location, but just need a bigger house. There's me, my DH, and our 2 DDs, aged 4yo and 11mo.

This is the second time that, when I've called to arrange a viewing, I've been told 'the landlord doesn't accept children' when asked who the property would be for.

Why is this? Surely, if any of us caused damage to the property, that's what the deposit is for?

AIBU to feel miffed and want to question the reason why such landlords are holding onto 3-bed family properties within walking distance of school?

[Kendodd]

I know someone who made quite a bit of money from rental property in Canada, and believe you me, she does "discriminate" (mostly along the lines of nationality/country of origin). She can't do it openly, of course, but ultimately she has the final say in who gets to move in to her houses, and she bases what she does on bitter experience, it's not about being malicious for the heck of it

What bitter experience is this then, that's made her take exception to whole countries of people?

[Trills]

I'm asking if the landlord or agent make any choices about who gets the house, or if it is simply "first come first served".

[flatbread]

I have never met my tenants, no desire to know about their family set-up. We don't ask about marital status or number of children. Not my business.

I had not had a bad experience to date (touch-wood)

[Trills]

OK, I was just interested as there definitely seem to be some cases where the landlords actively make a choice between tenants if multiple potential tenants all express an interest within a short timeframe.

[MinnesotaNice]

Trills I'm a LL (own a house in the US) and yes, it's first come-first served. Provided that the credit check is acceptable, my only other restriction is that I will not rent to someone with a "dangerous breed" of dog. There are too many young children who live nearby and I feel that it is my responsibility to mitigate against what I deem a risky breed. We aren't allowed by law (nor would I feel comfortable doing so) to have a no children restriction on our rental. TBH, I was shocked when I began looking at rentals here in the UK that this was legal--I always thought of Europe as being more progressive and the US being more conservative in this type of thing.

[expatinscotland]

'ananikifo - that's interesting, and I kind of agree with it in principle, but I wonder what's the incentive for people in Canada to become private landlords? If everything is regulated up to the back teeth, how much you can ask for, who you can refuse etc. yet the government relies on private individuals to rent out their houses to people who aren't rich enough to own and aren't poor enough to qualify for social housing, that's a delicate balance.'

I don't know about Canada, but in the US, there is no incentive for people to become private landlords. Instead, it's mostly the opposite, heavy regulation and heavy taxes.

Why? Because having lots of individuals speculate in the commodity that is shelter is very bad for any economy.

The majority of private rentals there are provided by corporations or companies/businesses. The running of the properties is usually hired out to a property management company.

You don't have all these pirate letting agents, either.

On the whole, it's a far more balanced and stable system.

The US had its problem with sub-prime lending to inviduals buying a home. The UK has an even greater one in that there was also huge speculation by many individuals in BTL.

[expatinscotland]

I was shocked, too, Minnesota. The housing system here is very backwards in many ways. So easy in the US, you need to move, you go into the apartment complex's office and see if they have vacancies. You submit paperwork for your credit check. They ring you back if you pass. You get a move-in date. You go in, pay your deposit and first month's rent, sign your lease, and move in.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

Sadly there is no incentive for the government to sort out this problem.

[MTBMummy]

Just to back up the landlords side - and no I am not a landlord, I rent as well and we now had DD who wasn't even a twinkle in DP's eye when we moved in.

But when we moved into our current house the previous tenants, a Mum and her 2 pre teen daughters, had left the house like a tip (Landlord lives abroad, so hadn't been able to check the property and agents were useless - but agreed not to make us have to clean the property when we left due to the state we have to move into it

The carpets in the upstairs bedroom were stained with nail polish and burnt, I imagine from hair straighteners, there was playdough/gum/blutack (hard to tell really) trampled into the carpet, the walls were scribbled on and the wall paper had been torn off in places.

Down stairs there were several large stains from where something had been dropped and obviously just left and not cleaned up, and the entire house was littered in long blonde hair (4 hoovers full)

Every radiator had either kids knickers socks or toys stuck behind it

Most of these had been covered by furniture or general clutter when we viewed the house.

I'm not saying adults/students aren't as messy, but there were some aspects that were very obviously caused by kids.

We ended up having to extend our lease by a few days on the old house (thankfully we had an understanding landlord who was happy to take an extra weeks rent off us) so we could properly clean the new house before we moved in and it did come up clean, but if that's what landlords see why would you rent to families?

[flatbread]

but if that's what landlords see why would you rent to families?

Because it is the law that you cannot discriminate?

It is not a personal property fiefdom...once you offer a good or service in the market, you are bound by the obligatory non-discrimination rules

Most other European countries, like the US, have strict anti-discrimination laws regarding rentals. UK is the exception. We need strong tenancy protection laws here.

[expatinscotland]

The difference, particularly in the US, is that you do not have so so so many people doing BTL, particularly in the flats/apartment/townhome market. It's discouraged via regulation and taxes. For very good reason. Because then you end up with what you have here.

[PanickingIdiot]

Expat - if private rentals are discouraged, what happens to people who, like I said, aren't rich enough to buy their own homes but not poor enough to qualify for social housing either? It seems to me that living in rental properties is not as common in the US as it is in Europe, definitely not among people with jobs and families etc., and one of the reasons is because banks used to throw mortgages at all and sundry, regardless of whether or not they were really in the position to afford it, which, in turn, led to...etc.

I, too, like to bash evil buy-to-letters as much as the next person - but I also rely on them to provide me with a roof over my head, and I recognise that if it's no longer a worthy investment/business for them, they can take their money and invest it in something else, in which case where would I sleep next month?

[flatbread]

35% of US households rent.

Nothing against btl, but the tenancy regulation needs a serious overhaul

[GoSuckEggs]

DH and I rent a 5 bedroom house, it is just us two and two dogs. We was looking at 3-5 bedroomed houses, and was quite surprised at how many said "NO DSS, No HB, No children etc"

[ModernToss]

It's a horrible situation the OP is in, and likely only to get worse, I think. There isn't likely to be any easing up on tenants under this government.

[expatinscotland]

'It seems to me that living in rental properties is not as common in the US as it is in Europe,'

It's very common.

What's done is done here, the system's a mess. Where do people like this OP's family go when they cannot find a private LL to rent to them?

[MolotovCocktail]

I think it's a perfectly reasonable statement to say that we're not rich enough to buy, but not poor enough to qualify for social housing.

[LessMissAbs]

Trills yes I choose between tenants (multiple occupancy). I basically interview them - I meet them in person, to gauge their attitudes to renting and looking after a property, and experience at living away from home. I also gauge whether they are likely to be pains in the neck to rent to. I check their references and do a credit check on them if I'm about to offer the property as well.

I'm not sure discriminating against families in relation to refusing to rent property to them is illegal. (or were you talking about the US Flatbread)The protected characteristics are
age;
disability;
gender reassignment;
marriage and civil partnership;
pregnancy and maternity;
race;
religion or belief;
sex;
sexual orientation
not the having of children. Neither can I see that it would be indirect discrimination, because both the male and female parent would be discriminated against. In the case of single parents, you might be able to make a case of it being indirect discrimination, in that a larger pool of women are single mothers than male. But until there is judicial precedent on it, I wouldn't say it is law. It wouldn't be marital discrimination, because plenty of families have non-married partners.

[expatinscotland]

Sadly, everyone wants DINKs, a couple, double-income, no kids. So this will become more and more of a problem for those like Molotov.

rentingout

[Mia4]

YANBU but to sometimes if it's a flat or maisonette it's more about the neighbours. It's the minority spoiling for the majority.

My first place stipulated no kids because it was upstairs and the last tenants had three kids who would race up and down on roller blades and stamp on the floor for fun causing them no end of stress. Now that was their shittiness, not a general 'kids thing' but it left the neighbours with a bad experience. In the end it was bad enough to have that family was evicted and though the LL knew it's not every family with kids, he didn't want the neighbours on edge just waiting for things to start to go bad. So he stipulated no kids to keep them happy.

[MummytoKatie]

This has really surprised me. I haven't rented for years but I always assumed that families were wanted and it was the house sharers that were top of the pops for problems.

I wonder if the deposit scheme could have some kind of record where the amount of deposit held back is recorded. If a landlord could see that. Family had rented 3 different places in the last 5 years and had never had much deposit withheld then they would be happier to rent to the family.

[PurpleStorm]

I can understand LL's not wanting to rent houses to families with kids if they've had bad experiences with kids damaging their property in the past.

But it does seem kind of crazy to be renting out family (3 or 4 bed homes) homes close to schools and specify no kids, unless maybe the house is a house-share only.

[evansthebread]

I was a LL burned by dickheads. Not only did they cause damage, the mother used her kids against me by telling the police I was threatening them. Long story but I eventually got rid of them. By law I had to give 2 months notice to get them out but had only taken one month's deposit. As soon as they had the eviction notice they refused to pay rent. With the rent loss and the damage I was seriously out of pocket.

If I could find good people, I would accept them - kids, pets, the works. Unfortunately I'm having bad vibes from every family viewing. None of them will give me their current LL details which is ringing bells very loudly for me.

The previous poster has made a good point about paying 6 months in advance but I'm not 100% sure the legality of it. If anyone could clarify it would be helpful just for future reference.

I do believe a tenant register would weed a LOT of problems our for both LL and tenants.

[flatbread]

LessMiss, I am talking about the US.

I am quite surprised how inadequate the tenancy laws are in the UK

[MolotovCocktail]

evans a tenant register is a great idea. Just in our experience, we've been good tenants for 14 years: first as house sharers, then 5 years with two properties with myself and DH on the lease. I think that we only had £30 withheld from our previous property would tell a prospective LL a lot :)