to think most part-time workers don't know what's about to hit them?! (Universal Credit)

[aufaniae]

Do you work part-time and get Working Tax Credit or Housing Benefit?

Did you know that once you're on Universal Credit, you'll be expected to attend the Job Centre to prove that you're looking for better paid work / more hours, in much the same way as unemployed people must prove they're looking for work.

If the Job Centre find an interview for you, you will have to attend (with 48 hours notice) even if it clashes with your paid work.

If you are offered a job with more hours, or better pay than your current one, you will be obliged to take it, even if you have good reason for not wanting to e.g. it's only a temporary post (whereas your current one is permanent) / has no training & worse prospects than your current job / makes picking your children up from school impossible / requires you to travel much further / has nothing to do with the career you're following.

If you don't attend the interview and/or take the job, your UC will be sanctioned, you will lose the UC for months or even years (depending on if it's your first infraction).

You will be forced to continue "upgrading" your job until you earn the equivalent of minimum wage for 35 hours a week.

I suspect there are lots of people (e.g. parents who work part time so they can pick their kids up from school) who will be affected by this, but don't realise it yet.

More info here

[redbobblehat]

why don't the goverment force businesses to pay people a living wage?
that what i want to know

oh its easier to scapegoat the poor, the easy target

[expatinscotland]

Nail hitting head, MoreBeta.

[Alittlestranger]

45 hours a week!? On low pay. I'm sorry, that's a crap way to live, it just is. Let's not pretend that this is an acceptable situation to have to be in and let the welfare state merrily die a death. Full employment is an aspiration I completely back, but it should be employment with decent pay and conditions. Some jobs will always be low skilled and poorly paid, and so you will always need a top-up for people working them. I don't support flogging people until they break.

[forevergreek]

And we work those hours for the choices we made in life. We chose to have children, we chose to live in an expensive city/ nice area etc. therefore we work the hours to accomadate. Personally I don't know anyone in either of our professions who works less than 50hrs each ( hence over 100 if both working)

When our children reach school age we can adjust our hours so we aren't working to midnight and take advantage of the daytime hours more.

I'm not against anyone doing whatever they like, but I do think we can't complain against the government encouraging people to be more self supportive.

[Meglet]

Lots of schools don't offer breakfast and after school clubs. At the DC's school after school places have to be booked far in advance and they are full nearly every day.

I earn over the minimum wage and work 18hrs per week so I'm hoping I'm just going to scrape in over the threshold. There are good prospects with my current employer in a couple of years as my supervisor is heading towards retirement and I can pick up more work and maybe a few more hours, I'm also studying OU which will tie in with work. But I will only work full time when I've got the kids to Uni in 14yrs time, until then I will be there to support them. I was the child of a FT working single parent and it left me very vulnerable after school (bullying, self harm, CAHMS, total balls up of my education despite being very bright), I won't do that to my children as I want them to do better in life.

How will the big supermarkets deal with the loss of PT workers?

[Alittlestranger]

MoreBeta to be fair Universal Credit isn't an extension/bastardisation of Universal Benefit. IDS never aspired to introduce a Citizen's Income etc and UC's philosophy comes from an entirely different place. It's just the word "universal" has confused people.

[expatinscotland]

'And we work those hours for the choices we made in life. We chose to have children, we chose to live in an expensive city/ nice area etc. therefore we work the hours to accomadate. Personally I don't know anyone in either of our professions who works less than 50hrs each ( hence over 100 if both working)'

More fool you, and them.

[BornInACrossFireHurricane]

Right, I find this confusing.
Could anyone clarify how a relative of mine will be affected please?

Lone parent, youngest is 13 and she works 20 hours a week (teaching assistant) also studying degree part time. Receives housing benefit, tax credits etc.

Am I right in thinking she is 4 hours short?

[Alittlestranger]

Born they haven't set the rules yet so no one can credibly tell you. This won't happen initially under Universal Credit and DWP are still deciding who to target and exactly what they will have to do.

This is still on the drawing board, which means still time to change it. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a benefit change which didn't only get attention a couple of months before it came in?

[FairyJen]

I admit I'm on the fence about this. I left a good job in the midlands and we as a family relocated to London. Dp is working ft long hours and his wage covers pretty much rent and council tax that's all.

I have one school age child and am in mat leave. When I return to work it will be pt as both mine and dp's jobs have unpredictable hours and if we both got stuck in meetings or court we would struggle to find child care.

We are not on benefits and each month is a struggle so I do know how hard it is.

however I was brought up to believe that you make your own way in life and that working is not just for financial gain but also self esteem etc. I like to think our dc are learning the importance of working hard and getting a good education through our example.

When I return to work our situation will obviously improve and this is through our sacrifice now.

It drives me mad that some people dp's sister feel that they should stay at home and not work to claim benefits and actually get more annually than we do currently. Yet in paper they are seen as the poor lower class when we are seen as well off.

The system is fundamentally flawed but so is society's attitude when it comes to entitlement.

[forevergreek]

We aren't fools, we all live a nice life with no complaints. It's everyone around us who has 101 problems with the world.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

This should have the effect of driving up wages and conditions as companies realise that in order to retain staff they have to increase hours and wages.

forevergreek there are jobs here too that no-one seems to want. All some way above minimum wage.

[Alittlestranger]

FairyJen, again, this isn't about targetting people who are staying at home, it's about people who are in work but on lower earnings so still entitled to tax credits and housing benefit.

[expatinscotland]

Are they not wanted? Or are they jobs to suit a particular skill set that people might not have?

[lazybastard]

Don't know why I'm posting this will probably be flamed.

I work part time, we didn't claim anything until DH was made redundant last year when we had to claim CTC to survive. We have both been spending a lot of time job hunting with no luck. So in what I thought was a positive move I applied to do nursing training. It is something I have wanted to do since school and I hope it will improve my employment prospects longer term. My boss has refused me more hours but has promised flexible shifts to work round my training so will at least still be working a bit. Course plus work and commuting I will put in about 80 hrs per week plus studying.

My question is will I be forced to quit my training and be stuck in a NMW job for the rest of my life? Disclaimer DH will continue with his job hunting.

[Jamillalliamilli]

Those who talk about how it used to be, seem to have forgotten that while the MC may have been able to stay on the right side of ?respectable working parent?, many others had to deal with the realities of illegal baby farms, children exposed to industrial environments, trying to sleep at mums work, being carried between jobs at night, preparing for school in the toilets, along with illicit factories, half rate piece work, cash in hand, latch key kids, children left unattended at night, and squatting as a way of surviving. Many still are.

This government wants people to be self-sufficient, but society is very quick to get upset at the realities when people with lower choices are. Choose what sort of world you want, because you can?t have it both ways.

[forevergreek]

And in life you just adjust. So when dh was made redundant, I worked more to accomadate. When I went on maternity leave with a drop in wages, dh took on overtime to allow for that.

It's difficult, life is. But worth it for the life it creates. If people can afford to stay at home or work v v part time without the need for government support then fantastic, but with the need I would constantly be looking for ways to not need it.

The benefits should be for the times when it's really needed. Such as if you loose a job. But you should be doing your utmost to dig yourself out of the need asap

[FairyJen]

I know it's about part time workers however up thread a poster stated that people would nt be made to leave permanent jobs for temporary ones etc. so if a person can work ft and support themselves rather than be supported by the state then they should!

[Mosman]

This should have the effect of driving up wages and conditions as companies realise that in order to retain staff they have to increase hours and wages.

I said that three pages ago but it didn't seem to fit in with the woe is me crowd.

Off the top of my head I can think of one young mum who is working her ass to set up her business and one mum who is single, by choice hasn't worked for 9 years and is now going to contribute to society by training to "do piercing" god help us but hey she's having a crack. There needs to be a way of supporting them without keeping the likes of my younger brother in the style he's become accustomed to working 16 hours a week - if it suits him.

[MrsMushroom]

What hours are classed as part time please? And what is classed as full time?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

These are ordinary jobs expat. Warehouse work, cleaning, labouring and also admin/office work. Some are outside of office hours, but would in theory suit a family looking for a second job to fit in around childcare/school/one person working standard hours.

DH was short of work for over a month over Christmas (self-employed), and we were sitting down and planning how many of these jobs we could pick up between us while managing school runs and not needing childcare. A 6 month project came through for him the next day, but if it hadn't there was work out there. I genuinely don't understand why there should be any unemployment in this area when these jobs are available.

[BenjaminButton172]

I haven't been on Mumsnet for a while. Been dipping in and out. But i had to come back on to comment on this thread.

This is my situation.
I am a single parent to a school age child. I am on an 8 hour a week contract(2 days a week). However my work also expect me to keep another 2 days free incase they need me. There is no chance of getting a bigger contract because of the type of work that I do.
I am looking for another job with more hours but how am i meant to get a second job when i am only really fully available 3 days. Most employers expect you to be flexible and work when they want you to work. And where i live the only jobs that are available are under 12 hours a week.

Also my job requires a lot of people for a short period of time. It would not work if there were less people on longer hours. And what happens when someone is off sick. It leaves the business in the lurch.

A few people on here are very naive and think that everything is straight and simple. There are millions of people in this country and every single person has a different situation.

[BenjaminButton172]

Another point. The more part time positions available more people are employed. If companies are forced to employ full time staff they will employ less people. How can this be right for our country?

[BornInACrossFireHurricane]

Thanks ALittleStranger

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

Benjamin - but this is precisely the situation that should be gradually eliminated. You can say legitimately to your employer - I cannot leave myself free because I need to work X hours a week. If you want me available then you will have to pay me.
Because everyone will be in the same boat, they cannot just move onto the next person.

The job market will adjust.

I'm not saying the situation is perfect, because it isn't and I have huge concerns around people with disabilities being brought under the same rules because we know that there is huge prejudice out there and that the playing field is not level in the slightest.
But if it adjusts the mindset to 'how can I do the most work possible and earn the most I can', rather than 'what is the absolute minimum I can get away with doing', then that has to be a good thing.

I agree with MoreBeta I would have liked to see this idea go further and be a true Universal Benefit, but there would be screams of horror at the idea of giving money to the 'rich' and no-one would even give the idea sensible thought.