to ask: What's the point in school uniforms?

[allrightluv]

They serve no purpose and promote conformity. Differences in income are expressed in other ways - shoes, bags, mobiles, in fact, even more so. Kids are judged by which school they go to (state/private). Thanks to the uniform you can tell by a mile off. Kids wear brands anyway - after school, at the weekends and in the holidays, so it's not any cheaper to wear a uniform to school. Consumerism is the most pronounced in the UK of all European countries.

Other countries like Sweden have no uniforms at school and few uniforms in work life, too, and rate much higher in terms of kids' happiness etc.

I'm not saying there's a causal link, but uniforms are not helping...

[FossilMum]

I went to a non-uniformed high school, and everyone seemed fine if you wore the unofficial uniform of some sort of jeans and some sort of top.

During my 1-year stay at a uniformed primary, I hated non-uniform day. With 3 days' notice I discovered that all the girls were expected to wear their prettiest dresses. I didn't have any dresses, so I stood out like a sore thumb in my uniform. Me and the sad, strange girl with no friends whose older sisters had run away from home. At least I kept her company that year?

[Haberdashery]

Conferencepear, is it possible that the girls' preening and self consciousness on mufti day is because they are not used to wearing their non uniform clothes with their friends and that it heightens the discrepancy outside of school or when they are allowed non uniform clothes at school?

Totally agree with this. I went to a secondary without uniform (probably the one Hully mentioned earlier) and there was absolutely no issue with clothes. It made clothes less of an issue, not more of one.

[FossilMum]

Oh, and because the uniform was a bit half-hearted, the fact that some of us had tunics made out of polyester and shaped like sacks, while others had tunics that were tailored and draped nicely, was even more noticeable than it would have been if we'd all been wearing the clothes of our choice.

[MagicMN]

Allrightluv, i do not see what you are worried about:are you scared of your children being lost in the conformity? Do you find them expensive?
I think uniforms are the only decent thing of the whole UK education system really.
I am happy that my son smears glue, pain and rolls in the classrom wearing the uniform that is , DEFINITELY, cheaper than his weekend clothes (uniform trousers:4.50 £ from BHS, weekend trousers: between 8 and 15£. Same can be applied to polos and jumpers).

[ProbablyJustGas]

I don't like them myself. I never had a uniform in school and, therefore, was actually dressed appropriately for school. Ie, sneakers for running around on the playground, jeans I could get dirty or messy, a t-shirt and maybe shorts for a hot day, or a sweater and sweatshirt for a cold day. Easy.

Some people have managed to cut down on the clothes in their kids' wardrobes with a uniform policy. Fantastic. This is so not the case with my DSD, who not only has enough uniform to get her through a week, but also drawers full of out of school clothes that she hardly ever wears before outgrowing, except for the weekends (thank you, Grandma).

Her school is not very specific about what is and isn't allowed to be worn (save the color); this gives us some flexibility with what to buy, but it also means DSD gets laughed at if she wears the "wrong" thing, such as a long-sleeved button down blouse when all her other friends are wearing short sleeved polos. So, the uniform policy has done sweet FA to solve that. :( And I'm sorry, but plimsolls are a really poor version of shoes. How can anyone expect kids' feet to be supported during gym class when they're wearing those flimsy things?

#cultureshock

[allrightluv]

MagicMN, I just think they're unnecessary, impractical and naff. Come on, what girls in this day and age still wear skirts and ankle socks to school other than the English? Where are "boyfirend cardigans" (ASDA school clothes range) marketed to reception aged girls? How will those girls ride bikes, climb trees? Oh, hang on, they don't! School uniforms are contributing to stereotyping boys and girls. Very backward. (Just like princess/car stickers for girls/bosy on clothes pegs but that's a whole different topic.)

[ScaredySquirrel]

my children have been to both uniform and non-uniform wearing schools.

now most of them are at non-uniform wearing schools. I much prefer them. We don't have any problems deciding what to wear as they we only buy clothes that they like in the first place.

the biggest plus for me is that uniforms are made of such nasty polyester fabric that I can't bear and which looks hideous.

We had more issues with my daughters when they wore uniform with discussions over whether they were wearing trousers, pinafores, skirts, tights, etc and they were always cold in winter too. Plus they didn't look smart because everyone wore different things!

[ConferencePear]

Cheeseandpineapple - you are right of course that the novelty probably makes the preening worse. The element of it that I really hate is the way it highlights the differences in the financial situation of the parents. The kids know it exists but non uniform seems to underline it.
We did try non-uniform for a while and the girls weren't too bad - the boys took it as a licence to wear dirty jeans and trainers. That was some time ago though so things may have changed.

[pigletmania]

Well northern that's how you feel does not mean everyone has to share your view . Yes I personally do find it easier, I don't have to think what to put on dd each day, oh no she worse this today if she wares it tomorrows he might get funny looks. I prefer it personally. I used to love my uniform and feel so proud of it when I was at school.

[ILoveTIFFANY]

Skirts and ankle socks aren't actually school uniform..., that's a choice between parent/child

My dd managed to climb trees... She wore trousers!

[Sallystyle]

I am very pro uniform. I love that it saves money on clothes and it is so easy to get ready in the mornings.

I also love how everyone looks the same so there is no bullying over people not being able to afford the latest trainers and jeans.

And of course they just look smarter.

[MagicMN]

I think younare reading too much into it. It is a way to dress for school, that's it. As a mother, i am happy that uniforms preserve their better clothes. Do they want to climb on a tree? Do it (do they do it at school, btw?).
The only thing that i do not like is to have them wearing uniforms at home. Infact, as soon as my son comes home, he changes straight away, wears "his" clothes, wash his hands and he eats his snack. The uniform is like the suit for me and my husband to go to the office...nothing else!

[MagicMN]

Samu2 i agree. If it was for me, they should have also uniform school boxes! Hahah

[KC225]

Allright: I can assure you that when my children (boy and a girl) come home from school, change out of their school uniform they are climbing trees and riding bikes, as they do at the weekends and school holidays.

I've seen girls wearing school skirts and ankle socks on girls in Africa, India and Vietnam

[trockodile]

We are in Germany at the moment and the schools have no uniform-it makes life incredibly simple and the kids wear jeans/joggers/pinafores/shorts-I love that they can dress appropriately for the weather. I have never seen any indication that the children view it as a fashion show, DS (7) has never lost anything (and he is incredibly scatty!) and because I choose clothes which wash well nothing has been ruined. The closest he came to teasing was when he wore his rather colourful boden tartan trousers-the kids asked if they were pyjamas-he told them that they are very comfy and warm and he loves them-no more teasing and he continues to wear them!
All the teenagers I see wear jeans and tops -have never seen girls at school looking inappropriately dressed or like a fashion show.

[pigletmania]

I totally disagree allright, I used to wear boys uniform trousers and boys pullover (I was a Tom boy) and my hair was short and spiky, no gender stereotypes there. I some times put dd5 in boys trousers.

[chicaguapa]

DH has always felt that uniform allowed the students some way of rebelling against the institution of school in a safe (but more controlled) way. Though he used to get very exasperated with having to spend the first 5 minutes of every lesson getting everyone to tuck in their shirts and sort their ties out. (School policy)

[allrightluv]

rebelling against the institution of school in a safe way not here: you can see secondary school kids taking drugs and smoking pot right in front of the school. Also teachers tent to have seperate car parks as they otherwise get their cars smashed. You don't get that in Germany.

[Pandemoniaa]

I have very mixed feelings about school uniform. Not helped by the hideous versions that my private schools imposed on me. But I don't rate conformity highly either and I do think that uniform does little in the way of overcoming differences in income since there are all sorts of subtle indications that demonstrate which children come from more advantaged homes.

If a uniform is practical and can be bought anywhere then it does make life easier in the morning. My dcs's primary school asked that the children wore certain colours (white polo shirts, grey or black trousers or skirts) and a red jumper or sweatshirt. All of this could be bought cheaply and easily.

I do object to state secondary schools who regularly change the uniform with each change making it ever more difficult (if not downright impossible) to buy uniforms from anywhere but an official stockist. I also object to lengthy and dictatorial uniform lists on which all items are claimed to be essential. Only to discover that when your child starts in Year 7, fully equipped at considerable cost, that at least a third of the stuff will never be worn.

[googlyeyes]

Fucking love uniform. Cannot understand a single argument against it.

What is so wrong with kids learning that at certain times they have to conform? And as for 'expressing personality', what a load of tosh. They're not like lines of robots simply because they're wearing the same thing! The kids manage to express their personalities just fine.

Funnily enough I've never heard a primary child complain about a uniform, only parents. DD is thrilled to bits with her smart (state) uniform and is really proud to be identifiable as a member of her school. It also really differentiates her free time when she gets to pick her own clothes/ shoes at weekends and holidays.

I'm another one who hated mufti day at secondary school, and faked illness for every single one. Not because we were poor but because the mean girls had a field day ripping everyone to shit for weeks afterwards for some perceived fashion flaw

[PartTimeModel]

I was thinking just this morning about just how happy I was about DD (recpt) wearing a uniform. For the record I didn't wear one until High School so it was a strange concept to me.

It takes so much pressure off the children re clothes, status, age inappropriate dressing etc etc. I think it's a good thing that the focus on appearance is on being the same, rather than being different. Be different with your personality, and what you do and achieve. Individual looks are immaterial when it comes to academic and school issues.

There is increasing pressure on ever younger girls re their looks, and how 'important' looks should be to them. This is very sad and potentially very damaging. Thanks goodness the uniform takes a lot of this pressure out of the day. It's functional, it looks OK, it's really easy to manage, and I think especially in years to come it will take a lot of the potential for pressure re image & material possessions away from my little girl's life.

Re the comments about not doing it in Sweden, this is the UK, not Sweden. Society is very different in LOTS of ways.

[MarshaBrady]

Love that ds has a uniform.

[KC225]

allright: Come on, fess up - are you Michael Gove?

[googlyeyes]

there are all sorts of subtle indications that demonstrate which children come from more advantaged homes

but without uniform you would be removing subtlety altogether

[PartTimeModel]

I actually think wearing a uniform cherishes & supports valuing an individuals personality over appearance, rather than teaching them to conform.

Of the many way a child can grow and express their personality and individuality, what they wear and how they look is way way way at the bottom of the list.