to speak to my boss about colleague abusing flexible working

[hatgirl]

argh... let me say first of all I am not a clock watcher, I work in a stressful job and people frequently work over their hours and there is a general agreement that a few minutes here or there or a slightly longer lunch occasionally is more than deserved pay back. We are a good, supportive team and there is pretty much no bad feeling other than the occasional niggle which is always resolved openly and professionally (yey for us!)

Essentially we are very much trusted by our manger who knows how hard we all work and various members of staff have different flexible working patterns in place which works well.

Myself and another colleague have recently started working 'compressed hours' essentially we work 10 days worth of hours over 9 days and have the 10th day off. For this to work we take shorter lunches, and work an extra bit at the start and end of each day... or at least I do, my colleague is working normal hours but still taking the 10th day off. At first I thought she didn't understand the system (I requested it first and she piggybacked her own request on the back of mine) so had a chat with her about it explaining the system again.

A few months down the line and she is still basically taking the piss. She is close to retirement and was recently refused voluntary redundancy - she is annoyed with the organisation and when I have reiterated to her the importance of us doing 10 days over 9 (again this is not done in a horrible way just in a general discussion way)she basically laughs at me and says that the organisation owes her after years of service (which is probably a fair point but doesn't change the fact that she is getting a paid day off every 2 weeks).

I'm now in two minds whether or not to now go to my manager as I am getting nowhere discussing with her directly, or if I should just wind my neck in and let her get on with it after all it doesn't exactly directly impact on me.

My boss will come down on her like a ton of bricks as him trusting us not to abuse flexible working is a big thing when he could be a complete arse about it if he wanted to be and he will be really disappointed that she is doing this. I actually really like my colleague and don't want her to get into trouble but a) her wages come out of public money

and

b) I am absolutely shattered doing the longer days (a lot of this is also because I have a longish commute - she lives 10 mins away from work) but value the day off in return and don't feel it fair she is getting the same benefit without putting in the work - also other colleagues not formally doing compressed hours are working the same hours if not more than her and are not getting a day off at all!

As much as I like her I just think her attitude on this issue stinks.

Would I be unreasonable in having a word with my boss and creating bad feeling in the team?

Or am I being petty and it is my bosses job to notice this and sort it out? Its literally as little as coming in 10 mins late, taking an extra 30 mins for lunch and leaving 10 mins early but it all adds up to the extra 50 minutes we work extra each day to get the 10th day off.

[IDontDoIroning]

If you worked my standard week you would have to do about an hour and a quarter a day extra. So that's not 10 minutes at the start and end of the day plus a short lunch. If you cut your lunch by 30 minutes you've still got to make up a further 45 minutes over the rest of the day.

I work in public sector and people have been sacked for this. We have a card swipe machine and software to book in/out on our computers. In ours employe handbook abuse of flexitime is considered gross misconduct. If someone posted that a colleague was stealing £x a day every day would the OP be called mean nasty and told to mind her own business ? She's getting paid to go a job she should do it. If she wanted to go part time she should cut her hours legitimately

I think the OP needs to speak to her manager and say that the IT support she is giving her is excessive this is a genuine concern and adversely impacts on the OP.

Also then mention her timekeeping say we are supposed to start earlier/finish later to do x and y when it's quiet but I don't seem to be able to do this as colleague seems to not be around at those times. I'm ending up doing it at other times when it distracts from my other work. I'm not sure what's going on but I feel I will have to stop doing x and y in the middle of the day and only do it between 8.15 to 9 or whatever and if she isn't around it won't get done.

I do understand that the Op may feel than she is risking her flexible arrangement by raising this but surely if its been done above board her employees wouldn't be able to withdraw it from her due to another persons's abusing it.

Yes the manager has got bigger problems than her timekeeping, but her timekeeping is indicative of her general inability to do her job, or the fact she doesn't really want or need to learn as Op will keep helping her out. This is the managers real problem the timekeeping is just a symptom.

I'm not much younger than this lady, it's not like she's in her sixties and has less than a year in work she could be there for another 10 years - OP do your really want this for the long term foreseeable future? It's not going to get any better either, what happens when you have the next newest software upgrade or some other changes in systems or hardware.

You also need a better way of recording your booking in / out times.

[fromparistoberlin]

you are being petty, at all

its not a level playing field

now what you do..tough one

but YANBU to be annoyed

[Bogeyface]

Further to my post above, my mum is 62, so a damn sight closer to retirement than this woman and she wouldnt dream of taking the piss with her flexi time!

[DorisIsWaiting]

I don't think it is petty.

I have to say having tried to address it yourself already and get now where the only option really is to go to your manager. I think you are reasonable to assume that you are colluding with your colleague and ultimately putting yourself in a difficult position.

Maybe you could try on more time with your colleague - ultimately it would be a come in on time or I will be making the management aware as I have no wish to put my own job at risk by colluding with you.

For team harmony you coud ask your manager to come in early one morning?

[Mumsyblouse]

I really disagree with everyone this is the OP's business or a matter of fraud. Firstly, why assume that working 8 hours a day instead of 7 necessarily makes someone a better employee? Lots of studies have shown that most workers do four, possibly five hours of really good concentrated work and the rest of the time, faff around, go for a coffee with a colleague, do admin, go on Mumsnet, do something less taxing, filing, no-one can work to their optimum all of the time.

Secondly, why is everyone outraged that someone is stealing money from the taxpayer? I'm more outraged that the public sector that the OP works for are such clock-watchers that if they do an extra hour like working through lunch (which most of us do as pretty standard in the middle of a recession, I work in a different public sector job), they expect to get a day's holiday in lieu! The clock-watching mentality is quite weird here.

Finally, everyone has to live with their own conscience and telling tales on colleagues is petty in the extreme. As a manager, I would hope I would be aware of this, and if someone came telling tales about this, I would not be interested or happy, because if it was my key priority to deal with it, I already would have done so, obviously monitoring every second of peoples' days isn't a priority or a system would be put in place.

The only bit of the complaint I am sympathetic to is to that the OP is covering up the colleague's incompetence with IT. I would stop this now, let her know and let your manager know.

[catinboots]

Petty and jealous

[WilsonFrickett]

I get that your boss is stretched, but essentially I see this as a management failing - particularly the IT stuff. That would really boil my piss actually. Nothing you are doing for this woman (on the IT side) is complex, she needs formal training and a formal development plan and if she can't find the skills then she needs to be moved on or out. I can't imagine a situation anywhere I've worked where someone not having the necessary skills to do their job would be met with a pat on the head and a suggestion to 'go and see X about it' because X also has a job to do.

I think you should do as pp suggested and only 'help' her within your extended hours. And I think you should speak to your boss about the amount of help you're expected to give.

[OmgATalkingOnion]

Jealous how? Jealous because hatgirl's not the type of person to pull a fast one?

[Alarielle]

yanbu she doesn' t want to work anymore and instead of looking for somewhere else or getting on with it she' s taking the piss. The place owes her nothing thats just her way of justifying doing this and if not reported it could in time when it is found out lead to a blanket ban on all flexi working because the trust isn' t there.

[wibblyjelly]

I really don't understand some of the responses here's. The woman is committing fraud, but its OK as she is close to retirement?
Also, in my job, if you are aware of fraud, if you don't report it, then you will get in trouble for it.

[DoodlesNoodles]

It is amazing how diffently people see the same situation!

[DoodlesNoodles]

I would report it without a second thought.

I can't stand that type of behaviour.

[Mumsyblouse]

But, everywhere I've ever worked, there's always one or two people who are pulling a fast one. It might be they say they are going on a visit and go home early, or claim a bit extra on expenses, or take lots from the stationary cupboard, or have a hangover every Monday so really are useless for that day, work-wise. Sometimes this has been at managerial level, I had a manager that never came in on Thursdays because they were out sailing. I have no idea if they made up the time on Thursday evening.

What I fail to understand is why this is the business of the OP. Sure, it is annoying when a few people aren't as conscientious as the rest, but in my experience, these people are usually found out, or are caught out, or don't progress that well because eventually it is noticed. The idea of having a formal meeting to let your boss know your colleague didn't come back from their lunch 20 minutes early is just laughable. I don't see it as my business to monitor my colleagues unless their crapness affects me, in which case if my workload was heavier, I would mention this which is why I would discuss the IT support situation.

[badguider]

To be honest I am not sure if i'd report it, but I certainly wouldn't assist it - so if she needed my help with something i'd say 'sure, no problem, let's go over it after 5 tonight?' or 'lets go through it again tomorrow before everybody else comes in'.

Also, do you have timesheets? We did in the big public sector place I used to work where we had flexi time. Somehow lying on a flexisheet in writing seems more 'wrong' and so as far as i'm aware nobody did it, everybody was kept honest by the paperwork. I'd suggest this if you don't already.

[Hullygully]

The only reason you would be reporting her is becasue you think it's "not fair" and she is getting one over on you.

Just so long as you are clear on that.

[Hullygully]

All your other stuff, yeah but I have to break off and help her etc is just you making up stuff to dress up your motive.

[badguider]

I disagree that it doesn't affect the OP - I think the whole idea of 'compressed hours' is under trial and that both staff on the system need to prove it can work or it could be withdrawn for both people. I would be worried that the untrustworthy behaviour of the other person would jeapordise an arrangement that the OP clearly CAN be trusted with.

[Crinkle77]

I agree with sowornout. I would have a word with her and say that although she feels the organisation owes her that it is not fair on her colleagues and try and make her feel guilty by emphasising that side of it. I would not go running to the boss and you will just look like a snitch. Besides she is close to retirement so will be gone soon anyway. I would be more pissed off with having to help her with the computer. Why does she not even know the basics like creating folders and saving files. If she does not know she should learn.

[Mumsyblouse]

But badguider, this would be a very strange organization if it hadn't considered that compressed hours requires trust and monitoring and hadn't worked out a way to monitor that themselves. It's not up to the OP to be the office monitor unless that's explicitly her responsibility, nor can she ensure everyone for evermore won't abuse the system, some will, that's why they have managers.

[AhhYouWillYouWill]

I think you should tell your boss

1. It's fraud and not really much difference in result to stealing cash from a till.
   
   
2. For your own careers sake.. If your boss only agreed to her flexible time because you were getting it and so you can help her, you'll lose your bosses trust when it comes all comes out (she's never going to get away with it for another 5-10 years).
   
   I think you should decide who deserves your loyalty more, your employer or your co-worker. In your situation I'd go to my boss.

[Waspie]

If this were me, I would refuse to help her with her IT needs at times other than in the additional time at the beginning or end of the day. I'd tell her this.

If she still comes to me with problems during core hours then I would raise it at my annual review, or if I couldn't wait that long, I'd ask for a meeting with my manager and say that providing all the additional help during core hours is adversely affecting my work and that I think this is unfair and reflects badly on me.

This is one of the reasons I left local government - there is always a minority who take the piss and let everyone else pick up their workload, knowing that it's almost impossible to get the sack from the public sector.

[Corygal]

I was in this position once - as the other woman. But I wasn't abusing the system - I did a lot of work at home. My a-hole colleague shopped me to get a promotion.

Didn't work on me - the mgt could see what I'd been doing had been productive. Trust, however, was destroyed. A-hole got promoted eventually, went peculiar, threw shampoo round the office, and left forever.

[RosyRoo]

There is nothing to be gained by reporting it. Focus on your own job and career. In my dp's team there is a person who comes in late, leaves early and does no work whatsoever. It is their life they are wasting, and in the long run they will lose out.

[OmgATalkingOnion]

I think hatgirls job does sound more difficult though as a result. The 'helping' aspect is now done around the hours the colleague keeps and not the hours they're both supposed to be keeping. So yes I think it does impact. Especially as the help she's giving is rather above the call of duty in itself anyhow.

Also the woman has seen an opportunity and gone straight in and asked to be piggybacked onto someone else's arrangement and systematically abused the trust she has been given from day one. Bit cynical no?

She may very well feel to company 'owes' her in some way. If she felt aggrieved in the past over not being paid/rewarded sufficiently, then was the time to mention it, not later at her convenience.

It's like saying this shop short changed me three years ago, so today to make up for it I'm helping myself to this bottle of gin. I doesn't work that way.

Also, seeing 'the company' as the thing she's treating this way is shortsighted. The actions impact more directly on the team you work with.