to wonder why on earth this child had not been removed from his parents?

[Bogeyface]

Shaun Binfield, 45, and Sally Dent, 33, of Belper, Derbyshire, had both denied the charges and were convicted after a trial at Nottingham Crown Court.

Two-year-old Riley Pettipierre died in March 2012 after drinking Dent's prescription methadone which had been poured into a child's drinking beaker..............................The court was told that police found evidence of heroin and cannabis hidden around the house and scientific tests showed traces of both drugs in strands of Riley's hair.

Ms Coen said it was highly likely Riley had consumed heroin and cocaine in the months leading up to his death.


Quoted from www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-21064982

Why in the name of all that is good was this child still with these parents? He must have been a heroin addict at birth. Drug abuse should surely be a reason to remove the child at birth?

[DizzyZebra]

The taking children at birth thing is difficultbecause there are what you call 'functioning adicts' even with drugs as strong as heroin.

I know two. I've seen them go without because they do ensure their kids have their needs taken care of first.

I've never seen them endanger their children.

I do think in cases of such a strong addiction, more involvement from social care is needed, perhaps compulsory healthvisitor input too.

From that article, I am amazed the boy survived as long as he did.

[DizzyZebra]

I also believe addiction is similar to pain regarding how people handle it. I can handle pain if I know exactly why its happening and that it will stop soon, its a focal point. . I believe that the functioning addicts that I know are similar when they withdraw - they know why it is happening, and they know it will stop soon - they just have to get through those few hours.

I was incredibly I'll once and I was prescribed some incredibly strong opiate based painkillers.

No one told me you have to have a break to prevent addiction, and I wasn't able to readthe instructions myself. When I stopped taling them I withdrew. It was horrific. Id have clawed my own eyes out if it meant it would stop. I sat awake for daysand nights, sweating, screaming, everytime someone spoke it was like they were screaming down my ear.

I didn't understand why. I think if I had more id have carried on taking them. I just wanted it to stop.

I get lile that with codine too, if I have to take it, but now I understand its easier to manage if I experience withdrawel upon stopping them.

I think that's the same reason functioning addicts can manage. From what I've seen anyway.

[Mosman]

Compulsory HV really ? Mine told me that my 2 day old daughter was a demanding little bugger because she wasn't going 4 days without a BF and swung her around like a rag doll to weigh her, almost by the feet. Then there was the one who told my husband I would obviously get PND with DC4 because I hadn't had it with the other three so it was my turn. Their area of expertise should be breast feeding, child development, maternal health etc and they can't often even get that factually correct.
I can't think of anyone I'd trust less tbh.

[Mosman]

4 days - 4 hours - bloody ipad

[Spero]

I agree Kungfutea that the system isn't a good one but where I suspect we disagree is the reasons behind this. I see the reasons primarily in no particular order or importancr due to lack of available judges, hence lack of court time to deal sensibly and proportionately with cases, lack of experienced social workers who are leaving the profession due to unrealistic work loads and constant pressure and denigration, the increase in social problems due to more vulnerable families, they are more vulnerable because services that once existed to prop them up are cut or done away with altogether....

what I don't accept is that the system is inherently and deliberately corrupt, designed to abduct babies and that weak cases are routinely pursued.

yes, mistakes are made. I don't want to comment on your friend, I don't know what is going on there, she coud have been the victim of a hideous miscarriage of justice - in which case I think she has a duty to go to the papers to try to shine a light on what is happening. But unless she has shared with you every document in this case and you have been with her to every meeting and every court hearing, you just can't know the full story, you know what you have been told. And there may be more to it than you know.

I don't think care proceedings are taken lightly, and in 90% of my cases I am more concerned by way the LA waiited so long before doing something.

Mags can only sentence for six months in criminal cases, but if they think what you did was serious, they can transfer your case up to the Crown court for a longer sentence - I think! haven't done criminal law for ages.

I also agree with you that taking a child is probably worse than a sentence of imprisonment - you will come out of prison, but you wont get your child's childhood back. But you also must remember that most care cases take over a YEAR to resolve - this is one of the massive problems in the system. So parents get every chance to show they can turn it around or deal with LA criticisms of their parenting.

[wordfactory]

The sad fact is that there is nowhere to put children who are removed from their parents.

The lack of foster placements is so acute that many local authorities have to seek placements hundreds of miles away.

Children's homes are full to bursting.

Children in care have the worst outcomes of all children in the UK.