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AIBU?

About a mother-to-be using racist language about her baby?

130 replies

TastesLikePanda · 03/01/2013 20:40

Met a friends sister recently, and she mentioned that she was pregnant. She is white and the father of the baby is black. Several times throughout the evening she referred to her unborn baby by using a racist term.

I found this very uncomfortable but decided not to say anything about it as I didn't want to cause an argument, however my friend noticed and asked her to apologise to me - which she did but half-heatedly.

Normally I would always challenge someone using language which I consider offensive, I didn't on this occasion as if she is in a relationship with someone of a different colour then surely she cannot actually be a racist, maybe she was just making a poor decision of a joke? She is definitely still in a relationship with the father of the baby, as she was arranging to meet him later that evening.

WIBU by not challenging her choice of language?

OP posts:

Report

trapclap · 04/01/2013 22:18

I also know a number of mixed rave people who prefer the term to 'mixed race'

Like I said, I wouldn't use it myself, whilst it is so controversial

squoosh · 04/01/2013 22:22

I think it's a vile word and am happy that it's generally now considered to be archaic and offensive.

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2013 22:27

I know there are many in the US that like it and Ive seen their forum.

There is also many more that are against it IN THE us and forums for that too!

I think using it despite its past is as ridiculous as the idea of black people using the N word to identify themselves.

How is it empowering?

As for it being one word and not meaning half? you know what the word means so how does that make sense?

Choosing a word because its one word is very odd reason to want to use it to identify people!

How about Bastardo? that flows? but you wouldn't for obvious reasons, this is no different.

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2013 22:30

Self hate springs to mind.

trapclap · 04/01/2013 22:35

I think accusing people of self-hate for the way they choose to identify, is offensive

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2013 22:40

Ok. I agree with the notion that it is up to the individual how they choose to identify themselves, but I think if you choose to use such a hateful tern then expect judgement.

Can you answer my questions?

DoubleYew · 04/01/2013 22:46

Hmmm, do you not understand what re-claiming a word means? Its saying yes I am to take away the power from people who shout it at you in the street.

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2013 22:57

Yes I know the argument for reclaiming a word.

I just don't agree with it, Im not alone.

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2013 23:00

Reclaiming gives the impression it was yours in the first place.

DoubleYew · 04/01/2013 23:43

If you don't agree with it, don't do it. It is not up to you (or me or anyone) to tell other people not to do it if they want to.

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 00:38

Am I telling anyone to do or not do anything?

Or did trapclap say;

This thread has got me thinking; I like the term 'mulatto' to describe mixed race, black and white. I like it because it is one word, its not 'half' or 'mixed' or 'dual'. I think its empowering. I would never use it, because of the historical context and I know it is controversial

I'm interested to hear what others think?

She asked and I gave my opinion.

Dryjuice25 · 05/01/2013 01:53

I wonder if it will be acceptable to this mother if say, aged 10, other people are using this term to describe her dc.

trapclap · 05/01/2013 02:06

amber
In answer to your questions;

I am not satisfied with the label 'mixed race'. I don't like 'mixed', I think it is negative. And race is a social construct, everyone is of the human race.

'dual heritage' would be accurate for my children, but not if for example one of the parents is carribean or of mixed heritage

Then, I don't Luke that an individual is defined by the sum of their parents, which is why I like the 'one wordedness'. It is more positive IMO. Mulatto is the only non-mixed up term to have been coined so far I think.

It's not clear cut that it is derived from mule. And it is thought it could have come from the Arabic word for mixed heritage (which I forget)

I would prefer another word myself. But its all a bit academic anyway as I am not MR and my children are free to identify as they choose, be that MR, DH, black, mulatto, 'other', 'no comment', whatever

I don't understand your comparison with bastardo, sorry.

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 02:42

My comparison with Bastardo is that it is a word in another language [not english] that means something descriptive yet offensive.

The origins of the word in this context are clear cut, I don't see how that can be argued with? you can google dictionary/thesaurus amongst other things and see many references to its use historically in relation to people of mixed parentage.

There is a word, which I cant remember exactly, that is arabic, but it doesn't mean the same thing, isn't a positive term [something to do with pureness of blood] and the theory is disputed/debunked in relation to any connection with the term mulatto.

I am puzzled as to how you can see 'mixed' as negative but mulatto as positive given its historical context?

You've heard of the 'tragic mulatto'? again, not positive or empowering.

Mulatto is the only non-mixed up term to have been coined so far I think

How is it 'non mixed up'? it means exactly that.

I don't think ethnicity defines a person, but identity is important, so some people feel ethnic identity is more important in that sense than others.

Again I agree that people are free to self identify, but you asked for opinions about the term and I am giving you mine, that isn't the same as saying no one should use it, Im just telling you why I think it shouldn't be used.

trapclap · 05/01/2013 07:47

The comparison with bastardo then, isn't really appropriate as there aren't large numbers of people who self-identify as bastardo as far as I know

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 09:07

I wasn't implying there were large numbers of people self identifying as bastardo!

My point was again that in line with your one word theory, it is one word in another language. of course it wouldn't be used as although it describes something accurately, it is also widely known as an insult and offensive.

Interesting that that was the only part of my post you could respond to.

trapclap · 05/01/2013 09:50

I think I replied to all of you points...what do you feel I haven't addressed?

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 09:53

The other 11 lines of my post.

Sorry, I was under the impression you were after a discussion about the subject.

My mistake.

InNeedOfBrandy · 05/01/2013 10:06

I've had a few instances of people calling my dc niglets, not in a racist way more a term of endearment (not that I liked it) same people also say wagwan little ni**a to my ds. Black people to my mixed race dc if that's a difference. My dc know not to say that word, I've educated them to understand the connotation behind that word. They know where they come from and what that word entails. (I also don't believe in the word reclaiming bullshit) so yes they hear it from family and my friends and yes they here it from songs but they know not to say it.

As for the situation OP describes it wasn't nice but I wouldn't call it racist. When she's older and experiences prejudice (sp) towards her dc she might look back and squirm.

trapclap · 05/01/2013 11:02

I was/am

I have addressed everything you raised in your post.

I understand what you say, I am familiar with the objection you raise

I don't speak Spanish. My language has some origins in Arabic. I think the origin I'd the term is not aS cut and dry as you believe it is on the one hand. On the other hand I am in favour of reclaiming words to disarm them

We disagree on both these points

Mu1berryBush · 05/01/2013 11:23

i CAN'T use the term dual heritage for my children. It's their race specifically that is mixed. Their black grandmother is too far back in their lives to have any impact on their culture or to educate them about her own parents/grandparents heritage. she has no interest in doing that. Anyway, I've split up from her son. I'm sorry, but it's news to me that mixed race is controversial. I have used it. Not often as it's not often relevant. But I did mention it at the doctors recently as my son had a condition which can be a symptom of a condition which I knew was more common amongst black people, so I just mentioned that he was mixed race. Rarelly mention it though. Dual Heritage ! no way could I replace it with that!

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 11:25

Mixed race isn't controversial?!

Mulatto is the controversial one.

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 11:29

I think the origin I'd the term is not aS cut and dry as you believe it is on the one hand

As I believe it is?!

Ok forget me, what about all the other thousands of academics who have researched and documented it?

You haven't addressed everything I raised in my posts at all, but I think that is probably because you don't have the answers.

I have given a reasoned argument to what I have said my objections to that term are, you haven't you have just said 'I disagree'

lljkk · 05/01/2013 11:30

We were taught Mulatto as a completely boring uncontroversial word in my Spanish classes, 30 years ago.

I am guessing the girl in OP's story mixes a lot of with black people, and let's face it, a lot of black people throw the N-word around a huge amount about themselves and others from their approximate racial background. That's why I think she finds the derivative "Nignog" acceptable. She is used to black people saying it about themselves and about mixed race people.

Seems to me that racism is about intent not specific words. If she means the word with teasing love then it wasn't racist.

AmberLeaf · 05/01/2013 11:34

That is a prime example of why reclaiming words is bullshit.

It allows their use in a derogatory sense.

If she means the word with teasing love then it wasn't racist

That is so screwed up I can't even begin.

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