to think that I shouldn't have to swallow my principles to save the NHS money?

[Tollund]

I was seen by a practice nurse this morning and prescribed antibiotics for my chest infection. When he wrote the prescription I said that if they were capsules with gelatine in them I couldn't take them and would need the medicine instead. He told me that he didn't know if they did or not and didn't have time to research it, and if I really couldn't bring myself to take them I'd have to ask the pharmacist what they would recommend. I've been here before so I said that they wouldn't prescribe anything and I'd end up having to come back to pick up yet another prescription. He said to go and see what they said but he wouldn't prescribe the medicine as it was more expensive. (I'm guessing he doesn't see a lot of Hindus and not sure how far he'd get suggesting that people should take things containing boiled up connective tissue and bones whether they've spent a lifetime avoiding them or not.)

So I went to the pharmacist and exactly what I had said would happen, happened and I've wasted over an hour trying to get them to liaise amongst themselves so I didn't physically need to run between the surgery and chemist to pick up prescriptions myself. (With a chest infection when it's -2!)

AIBU to think that the practice nurse was being a total arse and that I shouldn't be made to run around wasting time because he "was too busy" and clearly thought I was being stupid for not just taking the gelatine?

I'm pleased to see some sensible vegetarians on here who put their health first.

If you aren't happy with the medication being provided then you should pay for an alternative yourself.

YABU. Why should the NHS pay for your private preference. If you want the alternative, you should pay the difference.
Vegetarianism is your choice. By demanding the more expensive drug you are taking money from the NHS for no other reason than your lifestyle choice. I would say the same thing to someone with religious reasons too. The Nhs isn't there to cater for your personal choices. You want something different, you pay.

You can buy empty caplets - so you could empty the contents of the capsules into one of those?

I know you put a wink at the end but having a bash at other vegetarians is silly.

Ah, sorry I see some posters have replied that yes it would definitely be unreasonable if on religious grounds and also that you answered the animal testing query with this:

The difference is that the medicine contains no animal products

So why are you a vegetarian? You can't stand eating animal products even in medicines. But you're ok with them suffering to provide medicines. That makes no sense to me but I'm sure you have your reasons.

I'll be honest, in saying I'm best described as a rabid 'Bacon Butty Taunter' when it comes to veggies.

BUT I'm with the OP on this one.

Why? Not because she should have the right to alternative treatment, but because concerns over the contents of medications should be taken seriously even if the HCP thinks its a waste of time or money.

They should either reassure the patient OR satisfy the patient that its the best option available to them OR give them an alternative solution OR suggest an alternative and where they can source this from if its not available on the NHS (could be simply suggesting going private rather than anything more than that). Not to simply take a snotty attitude about it, which this sounds like.

This isn't so much about rights, but respecting patients without judgment and making sure that they are happy about the medication and treatment they have been given and if they aren't seeking to properly explain things. This is basic decency and bedside manner.

More worryingly, the practice nurse should be aware of the contents of drugs they are prescribing, especially if they have the potential to be something that could cause sensitivity to certain groups - which does include for religious reasons AND for common dietary preferences like being veggie - so that the patient can give educated consent about their medication. A lack of knowledge about what they are prescribing and an unwillingness to check something when asked because 'they are too busy' is never excusable. That type of attitude is the type of attitude that leds to someone getting sued or worse still harming someone when they make a mistake.

No one should EVER, EVER be made to feel a nuisance or shitty for questioning their medication for whatever reason.

Yabu

It sounds to me as if the practice Nurse was out of his depth ie. had no idea what the issue was.
Instead of sorting it out with you properly, which in his mind may have made him feel he'd lost face, he tried to pass the buck on to the Pharmacist.
Things like this often happen when the member of staff concerned is relatively inexperienced, ignorant of all the facts or bone idle.
Some (but by no means all) NHS staff feel very uncomfortable when dealing with a knowledgable patient.
He'll never expand his knowledge if he never has time to research things and a Nurse who simply ploughs on regardless rather than taking a moment or two to find something out is potentially a very dangerous Practitioner IMHO.
I don't think your request was unreasonable and he should have made an effort to meet your request.
I would write to the Practice Manager outlining your experience today and leave them to deal with it.

What does the doctor normally prescribe? I'm confused, in your posts you say it hasn't happened before but in your op you say "I've been here before".

Thank you RedToothbrush.

samandi I'm not ok with animals suffering, so you're making some assumptions there because I just can't be arsed to get into a hypothetical philosophical debate with someone whose motives are to deconstruct my beliefs.

I take issue with the posts that say "oh, seeing because it was for religious reasons then YANBU"

What? So someone who chooses not to eat meant for religious reasons is more entitled to that and more valid than someoe who chooses not to eat meat for other (ethical?) non religious reasons?

Thats bull.

Either everyone who doesn't want gelatin casuals is U, or no one is.

Personally I think OP should suck it up or pay for a private prescription, the NHS is a 'one size fits all' type of organisation and can't bend to accommodate everything. Although really the GP should have just perceived the liquid.

What is hypothetical about it? And what's wrong with wanting to deconstruct (in the sense of analysing) your beliefs?

Wouldn't the BNF list the ingredients of a medication? Isn't that what it's for? Surely every practitioner would have a copy?

knittedslippers - sorry, again I wasn't clear! I had this problem last time I had something prescribed where I live now, but prior to that, when living in a city this was just never a problem.

I will write a letter as like WingedHarpy and RedToothbrush said, it's really not acceptable from an HCP.

Particularly when the title was "Am I being unreasonable to think I shouldn't have to swallow my principles" ... any answer to that question really needs an understanding of those principles in the first place.

samandi believe me, I deconstruct them on a very regular basis but that wasn't what this thread was for.

And yes, maybe I should have posted this in philosophy or somewhere similar...

whois I'm pretty sure every single NHS authority will have a policy supporting the prescribing of non-gelatine medicine and more importantly informing of their patients about the contents of medicines. The practice nurse was failing in their basic duty of care to their patient.

YABU

When someone has a medical reason to not be able to take something then in my experience staff are very good at ensuring medication is safe.

When someone wants something special for non medical reasons then they shouldn't expect the NHS to provide that. If it means so much to the OP she should make sure she knows which medications are "safe" and which aren't

Seriously Sirzy. Even though in some instances there might be no price difference whatsoever? And the fact that I asked him to confirm that an ingredient was present and he refused to check is fine with you?

Yes. Taking them won't make you ill. It is your choice so if you want an alternative you shouldn't expect the nhS to provide it.

Sirzy So you don't believe at all in the need for consent in what medical procedures and drugs you take - you believe it's wholely the responsibility of the prescriber what you take and they do not have to provide you even with the information of what you're taking?

OP I am at the reaction you are getting in this thread.

As a eat-anything- tax paying-occasional user of the NHS I wholeheartedly support your point.

Of course they should have provided you with the vegetarian alternative. Just as they would have done if you were admitted and needed food. Speak to the practice manager- they are in the wrong!

Tollund, I'll be in honest in saying that the very thing I get most frustrated about vegetarians is selective or competitive ethics and I do think you are a little guilty of this with what you have posted in this thread.

I think you do need to be more aware just how many drugs are tested on animals and be realistic about it than perhaps you are from your posts. However I do agree that I think its important that you should know whats in the medication if it worries you.

You need to be able make an informed decision and so you can take medication you feel as happy as possible with if this is such a strong concern of yours. You may ultimately may have a stark choice of refusing medication or compromising your ethics, but you should be in a position to make that the decision about where you think the line in the sand for you is, and be as comfortable as possible when you do that. Its not up to anyone else to draw that line. Only you can do that.

I don't think thats trivial or petty like others are suggesting. And in this case I don't think your request was an 'out-there' request which isn't easily accommodated. Being vegetarian or vegan is pretty common and these type of question are ones that you won't have been the first, nor the last, to raise. We are all different and certain things are a lot more important to some people and not to others especially when it comes to our health. The NHS is great, but it shouldn't be a conveyer belt or machine that treats patients are something to be processed not listened to, even when there are the financial concerns, there are at the moment. Good health is about emotional wellbeing being part of the package of physical health and shouldn't be overlooked.

I think this is about addressing patient concerns effectively and properly. Afterall, if its going to haunt you and plague you with guilt or you feel forced to have a drug its not a productive outcome.

Its also particularly of note, you are talking about anti-biotics which have particularly characteristics as drugs. If you are given them, you need to be taken for the full length of the course otherwise it has the potential to stop the drugs being as effective in future - which is a potential harmful problem. If you are uncomfortable for whatever reason taking the drugs, you are far more likely not to complete the course; that has implications for your health and potentially for other people's health.

People might not agree with your moral stance on the limits of your vegetarianism. As I've said, I don't particularly. I don't think you have necessarily have a right to other drugs on the NHS, but I do think you have a right to be fully informed and properly reassured to the best ability of the HCP treating you so that you can make decisions about your health that you are happy with.