To ask mothers of grown up sons what, if anything, their son has done to a woman that they are embarrassed about?

[ATouchOfStuffing]

I see so many posts about apparently horrid and unfair men on here, I wanted to see it from the mother's view point. I know from my experience that mothers sometimes find it hard to believe their son would behave badly or hurtfully. However some mum's must have a few stories?

[Kalisi]

I guess I'll just have to raise my eyebrows and shake my head in disbelief in the way this thread has just turned! Do people really think like that?!!

[CailinDana]

Statistically the level of false reporting for rape is no greater than any other crime. In fact under reporting is the problem. And it is attitudes like Mulberries that convince women that no one will believe them if they do "cry rape" no matter how justified their "crying" is. It is the reason that the "we believe you" campaign on mumsnet is necessary. The idea that naive young girls go about accusing innocent boys of rape willy nilly is just bollocks - there is no evidence for it.

Anyway that's not what the thread is about.

[CometAndCupid]

I know my ex-p's dad is ashamed of how he left me when DD was a very small baby, and how he behaved towards me in our relationship. His mum however believes I set out to ruin his life and trap him with a pregnancy (not true at all).

I am interested to see how they will deal with the news that he is now dating someone barely legal.

[Tailtwister]

Mine are young (4 and 2), but I wouldn't stand by and watch them treat women badly. They would certainly know about it if they used, cheated on or abused them in any way and yes, I would be ashamed and tell them so. Likewise if I had girls, who also are able to use, abuse and cheat on men too.

[Mu1berries]

Cailindana, that's not what i was saying at all.... I totally agree that under reporting of rape is a huge problem, and even if it goes to court etc it's very unlikely that there'll be a conviction. Of course young girls don't go around accusing young men of rape willy nilly. The opposite is true. My 'attitude' is certainly not contributing to any problem. SO many young women have been date raped or sort of raped if they didn't just give in, or duped into believe they were sleeping with somebody who cared about them,,,,,,,,but they just suck it up and try and forget about it. There is a lot of just pulling your socks up and trying to forget about it that goes on.

But on a thread about the bad behaviour of sons towards women it would be an omission to not mention it at all. I would warn my son not to try and 'convince' women to have sex with him, either with drink or with temporary charm or with promises to call next week or with insistence, or with flattery ..............

[CailinDana]

"sort of" raped? What's that?

[waltermittymistletoe]

How do you get "sort of raped"?

[Doha]

DS dumped his lovely GF of 2 years by text-totally out of the blue. He then refused to speak to her or explain why. The poor girl was 1 week away from sitting her final exams for her Masters degree.
I met with her at her request and she was distraught, l was ashamed of him and appalled at his behaviour. He knows how l feel and now admits he behaved like a twat.
After 6 months they are back together but l hope she dumps him just as spectactularly as he did her. Then and only then will he realise just what damage he caused and how NOT to treat people in the future.

[Mu1berries]

Sort of raped has happened to a few people know. More than I like to think about. They weren't raped because they gave it up. And did they report it or make a fuss? no of course not. They just lived with it and got on with it.

I'm going to leave this thread now before I get too angry and upset.

This thread is about BAD behaviour and my comments aren't reflective of my opinino of all men. I thought that this thread was about the bad behaviour of young men, not the sort of selfishness of husbands not getting up for the baby or not doing any housework.

My comments were about SOME young men who behave badly towards women. This is what the thread is about.

I will talk to my son about this sort of thing and I will tell him that under no circumstances is he to twist somebody's arm into having sex, through flattery, false charm or temporary charm or LIES, or drink or a combination of the two, or worst of all, the interrogation style seduction 'but don't you like me? you said you liked me? don't you fancy me? are you too good for me? are you afraid of me? don't you trust me? do you think i'm lying?

Things are worse today than they were in my day because of internet porn. Young men have such a sense of entitlement to casual sex. a whole generation of boys has been encouraged to view women has worthless sex objects to be used and enjoyed (recent quote from the editor of zoo or was it nuts)

ARGHGHGHGHGHGHGG

right, gonna hide this thread now because I will end up getting FAR too worked up over it.

[Mu1berries]

or, do you think it will hurt? are you afraid? are you a prude? are you a virgin? are you frigid? you need to lighten up.

[CailinDana]

Mulberries, that's not "sort of" rape - that is rape. If you have sex that you don't want for whatever reason, it is rape. Being coerced verbally is no different than being coerced physically - you wouldn't say a woman who had been held down was "sort of" raped would you?

[MaryAstor]

My BIL has a child he never ever sees - cut off contact when he was two (he is now eleven).

I have often wondered how on earth my PIL have been able not only to support him in this, but to blame it all on his ex-partner who "obviously got pregnant on purpose to trap him" and "treated him terribly" and "made it impossible for him to see the child".

DH and I are the only members of BIL's family to have regular contact with the child and he is lovely, so it is BIL's total and utter loss. His ex-partner is also absolutely lovely (she's a damn sight nicer and easier to get on with than BIL, frankly) and been so open to us seeing the child and being part of his life. It just makes me when I hear all the propaganda from PIL about her.

I couldn't in good conscience support my son behaving in such a way, let alone bloody egg him on.

[Llanbobl]

AFAIK he's treated his GF perfectly well in the 8 years they've been together (from age 14 ) theyveen

[Llanbobl]

Posted too soon
Was saying they've been together since aged 14 - went to uni together - shared a flat and now have a flat in Berkshire where he works. GF is stay at home (nom parent).
He's been brought up by me to respect women. His dad can be a twat, but luckily my son has turned out a good'un

[Pilgit]

One mother i know, whose son got a friend of mine pregnant, treated her appalingly, dumped her and then refused to financially support her - completely cut me off when i mentioned in passing that if he can afford to buy himself beer and get drunk regularly he can afford to give her some money! really didn't think it was that controversial as she was (and is still) living in her parents very small 3 bed terrace with her two teenage brothers as well.... son is now 2.5 and is still sharing the box room with his mother. On the other hand my MIL would (in a very italian mother type of way) 'slap' her boys somewhere into the next century if they ever treated their wives/DP's badly.

[ATouchOfStuffing]

Very interesting to see the different approaches.
Interesting how many women seem to suggest they would be calm and a rock for their sons regardless (obv I know you will carry on loving them regardless) but was expecting a bit more of that Italian style I suppose, considering the anger on some of the posts on here against men.

[Snorbs]

[I am a man]

I think the things I've done regarding women that I'm most ashamed of is:

1. Making an appallingly clumsy pass at someone I worked with - or, more accurately and ever so worse, someone who reported to me - which led to a deeply awkward situation when she turned me down. She didn't deserve to be made to feel that uncomfortable. I still cringe at the memory.
   
   
2. When I was about 22 or 23 I was on a business trip to Florida and I got talked into going to one of the big strip clubs. I'd never been to such a place before. It was a god-awful experience. The thought very quickly struck me of "What the fuck do you think you look like through her eyes?" I was then left just counting down the minutes until I could get the hell out of there.

[Hassled]

DIL made some mention of doing all DS1's washing. I said "please tell me that isn't true" and DS1 said "no it's fine, she makes me do my fair share of stuff". To which I snapped "well, she shouldn't have to make you - you should be doing it anyway". And it did make me feel like a crap mother - why the fuck is she doing his washing? Why does he think that's OK?

[PomBearWithAnOFRS]

My ex MiL is a lovely, lovely lady who I adored and still do, and she was very upset when her son turned out to be just like his father and brothers before him a violent alcoholic :(
We still keep in touch with her, and she is welcome to come round any time to see her grandsons, and they go to see her. ExH otoh, we haven't laid eyes on for over ten years

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Snorbs, thanks for that post,

It might be interesting to ask about brothers etc too as we might be more likely to know "the full story". Eg. I was cross with my DB for not breaking up with his DP when he didn't want kids and she did (and I told him so).

[SantaIAmSoFuckingRock]

"Sort of raped has happened to a few people know. More than I like to think about. They weren't raped because they gave it up."

still rape. the fact that they have had to 'give in' tells you this.

[SantaIAmSoFuckingRock]

it's just the same as saying 'she didn't fight so it wasn't really rape'