Baby won't sleep at night, three year dropping nap in the day

[ditziness]

I feel like I haven't slept for over a year now. Had enough. Getting so angry and upset. Atleast I used to be able to vegan hour or so sit down after lunch to feed the baby or optimistically snooze, but now i'm usually just getting an hour swearing at my three old and putting him back in bed while the baby cries. But if the three year old doesn't sleep he's a horrible tired mess by late afternoon, so I need to go out of walk him around in the buggy to fall asleep . Dead on my feet. Or he'll fall asleep around 5 and then not go to bed till 930pm giving me precisely 30 mins off before the baby starts waking up every hour, as she's only doing a two and a half hour stretch from 730-10 these days.

Tonight has been an ordeal, one of those nights you looking at the clock hoping it'll say 6 am for it to be over, and it only says 1 am.

Fed up

[RosannaBanana]

Oh poor you :(
Handing you a virtual for what it's worth.

Hope your day gets better from here.

[ditziness]

acceptance mode. word. had to bundle them both into buggy. little shit fell asleep within 5 minutes, now i'm sitting on a wall in the rain feeding baby. joy

[Learning70]

Ooh I remember I t well. My baby would wake in the night and just as I got him back down my 3 yr old would wake up for the day. Every time I fed or changed the baby 3 yr old would jump all over me. Put baby down for nap, no time to rest, 3 yr old would want my attention. It was like wading through treacle. It will pass. You've had a horrid year but it will get better. You might have to go into acceptance mode for a bit.

[Fairylea]

If he's got that much energy he's not going to sleep... why not try doing the opposite and do something high energy to tire him out instead? For example get a balloon and have a game to see how longhe can keep it in the air for before it hits the ground, set him a task to find things (4 brown things, 6 round things whatever else) ... that sort of thing. Of course when you're exhausted its not fun for you but at least it might stop him being bored and spiteful... just ideas really.

[ditziness]

i'm sorry, but you're preaching to the converted. I know you can be outside in the rain. I just didn't want to be wet and cold too when I'm so tired I feel ill.

DS has been up since 5am. and has been refusing to nap since 1pm. If I go and lie with him he pinches me and headbuts the baby. i hate him just now. i'm crying and pleading with him and he laughs in my face.

[Softlysoftly]

But there are puddles to jump in, bugs to hunt for, birds to find, trees with fruit/nuts/autumn leaves to chuck sticks at. Don't underestimate how long a 3 year old can throw a stick at a tree for, that was DD1s afternoon when I was stuck at parents arseendofnowhere the other week, while I sat on a rug and rocked baby. Just tog up warm and set them free.

As for TV having it on as background drives me nuts but when it's a film like toy story or monsters inc for a set amount of time it doesn't bother me so much, after all adults do that for entertainment iyswim.

[ditziness]

yes the tiredness is horrible, it doesn't even feel like i'm tired, It feels like I'm on drugs, a horrid angry wired feeling that makes my bones hurt.

i must admit youve all inspired me to put 6 episodes of charlie and lola on back to back. we were at the park, but it's raining. and we're an hour away from where we live, rurally without public transport and i don't drive. If I was at home I would have gone to a playgroup or met up with a friend. but literally nothing but the park here.

DS goes to nursery two full days a week, and dh takes him in ( an hour away). Cause we're away from our home town he can't go to local preschool until we manage to buy this house and move back in the new year.

[FTRsMammy]

Didn't want to read and run, no advice as such but I can sympathise my DS dropped his daytime nap at 15months old! I thought I was going insane, my DH is in the navy so I didn't really get a break from the parenting (still don't!) and that 90 minutes was my respite and my insurance that he would sleep well at night so I did mourn a little when I lost that.
All I can say is if you need a rant this is a good place for it and your DH wbvu

[Kittyhaha]

TV saved me when 3 year old dropped his nap forever on the day DS2 arrived. Make DVDs your best friend and feel no guilt. I was bonkers with sleep deprivation for a year. Still makes me cry just thinking about it. It is hideous and you get so tired you can't work out what you need to feel better. Ask anyone and everyone you can get your hands on for help. Be shameless. Even a micro nap will help.

Good luck, you're doing great and it will get better.

[ditziness]

i am a bit proud i think, i don't like asking my inlaws for help, i feel like i'm putting on them enough. My FIL works from home and is busy most of the time. and my MIL doesn't keep well. She's been in bed for the last week. I feel bad for wearing her out just by being here. She does cuddle the baby sometimes if i need to do something with ds.

and i don't like putting the telly on. I know it's not evil, and I wouldn't be so daft as to ban it completely or judge anyone else for doing it. But I don't think wee babies should watch television, and if ds is watching it so is dd. cbeebies also completely drives me mad. i'd rather go for walk.

sigh... thank you for the plenty or sage advice, shall digest and think on. keep it coming. and most of all thanks for listening and empathy x

[Rockchick1984]

This all sounds so stressful for you! Going to try and separate it out and see if I can offer any opinions on it. I think it's just been so much happening for you, that it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so many things at once.

1. I'm sorry about your dad.
   
2. How long is it until you are hopefully moving out of you PIL's house? Could you try to spend as much time out and about during the day so you aren't having to tidy up so much?
   
3. What help are you getting from your DH? We have one lie-in day each at the weekend, and I do middle of night wake-ups, he does early mornings and just deals with having to get ready while supervising. He wakes me 20 mins before he leaves the house.
   
4. DS's naps - can you have quiet time if he doesn't want to nap? Does he have to be in a pram on the way home from nursery? If he is walking or even on a buggy board he will stay awake, just get him home and immediately start the bedtime routine if necessary.
   
5. What time does DH get home from work? Can't you go to bed then, he can deal with the kids until he goes to bed.
   

Honestly, the biggest problem IMO is a lack of support. Does your DH know how bad you are feeling?

[Softlysoftly]

Mens problem is that they are practical not emotional instantly (flame me other than the odd exception it's true) so if you offload they give you great advice or tell you in all the ways you should be grateful, which you already bloody know so just piles on the guilt, cue getting pissed off, cue big row .

It's taken years for me to realise I need to specify this is a blind support moment not a "help me" moment iyswim.


You'll be ok, you are chugging through a lot more than most people do.

[dinkystinky]

If 3 year old wont sleep, while baby is napping after lunch have quiet time and lay on sofa with him to watch gentle dvd - he may sleep if feeling all cozy and you'll get a rest. Make tea time earlier and have earlier bedtime for 3 year old. It will get better I promise.

[RosannaBanana]

Just wanted to say you're doing brilliantly. You have so much on your plate and are coping and surviving. Let this be your standard and don't feel bad about anything! Just do what you need to do. I have a 3yr old who has dropped his nap and a baby too. This is what we do-
Big morning out, baby will generally sleep in buggy, we go to toddler group or park or something.
Sometimes have picnic whilst out- thus avoiding hastle and mess of lunch at home!
Back home- all get in my bed, baby feeds,I snooze, DS watches a film or episodes of something on the laptop.
I have had some health issues and this is the way we get through the day. I find that, although far from ideal, this rest will help us all get to bedtime without too many meltdowns.

[Fairylea]

Does your toddler have nursery in the afternoon then? Any chance you could swap for a morning session?? So they could go nuts in the morning and be tired in the afternoon ?

[ZhenThereWereTwo]

My deepest sympathies are with you.

I also have a 3 year old who won't nap and is having nightmares and a teething 8 month old who wakes all night too.

So sorry for your loss, finding space to grieve must be very difficult.

Being homeless is also extremely stressful, have been there.

I think the snoozing on the sofa option is one you should consider, at 3 your little boy should be able to be left in front of the TV with a snack and a drink while you get some sleep. I do this and it at least stops me feeling like a complete zombie.

Second if you can call in help, family, friends, nice neighbours you can trust or a trustworthy teenager to watch your son for a few hours in your home while you sleep. Even a few hours in a row for one day will help you recharge.

Third consider co-sleeping with baby temporarily if you can (3 year old could sleep in with his dad and you sleep with baby in his bed if he has a single bed) that way you can feed lying down whilst mostly asleep. This helped me survive when my eldest was waking every hour.

Fourth is your 6 month old teething? Calpol is your friend, if I can see my baby is going to have a bad night (sore gums, grizzling, waking lots in evening etc...) I find that a dose of Calpol around 10pm will help her through the worst pushing period for teeth at night and she sleeps better. That can get me a four hour stretch of sleep if I am lucky.

Fifth - weekends, you are owed one lie a week in by your husband. My DH takes the baby and my eldest on one morning until 10/11am and only brings baby in to me for feeding, that way I get to catch up a bit.

Hand holding and a listening ear hear when you need it so rant away x

[ditziness]

Aw thank you. Silly that someone on Internet just saying " you're doing really well" can make me cry and help so much. I shall digest your advice and try it out, thank you.

As for DH, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that he doesn't have to fix it. I think he gets angry or annoyed at me because he thinks he should be able to fix it. I actually just want him to acknowledge that things are difficult and I'm doing well.

It's like the whole living with his parents thing. In general they are lovely, and so kind to have us here and they are coping really well with having people in their space. I know this and I love then for it. But that doesn't stop things being difficult sometimes. But if I moan about anything to DH he gets posed off with me and tells me I'm being silly, too sensitive, not grateful etc.

[fryingpantoface]

I'm so sorry it's so rubbish now. It will get better, it just doesn't feel like it at the moment.

I second softly's post. Don't worry about constantly playing etc, bang the tv on and take a nap.

Do your in laws know you are struggling? I know this will be different, but when I had pnd my in laws didn't offer to help because they knew i'd perceive it as a criticism of my parenting, when it really wasn't. They waited to be asked. Could you ask them for help?

[Softlysoftly]

You are doing a good job, I have a just 3 yr old and a 6monyh old who hates sleep, plus the 3 yr old doesn't nap, towards the end of the day she's stroppy and crying but with a nap she refuses bed. It's bloody hard and I'm not sharing a house or dealing with half your crap.

The only suggestion I can give is when you are at home drop the nap, at late afternoon sit 3 year old down with non choke able food that he likes (if it's sweets just think its only short term , some things must slide!) and a film on tv, make it exciting like a mini cinema. Then put baby down asleep or bouncer at your feet and you doze! It might not be a proper sleep but it always boosts me a little.

On nursery days path of least resistance would be if he sleeps in the car join him for half an hour in a layby somewhere and then put him to bed later rather than wasting time fighting the inevitable. Let him spend the extra hour or so up painting/watching tv/ play dough something independent so you can still kick back a bit.

Path of least resistance is your friend! Otherwise you will not only be tired but angry as well. This stage will pass and you can "fix" any bad habits later.

If you ever want to rant feel free to pm me ill quite happily weep together!

Oh and sit down tell your DH to stfu and just listen to how you feel, tell him specifically you do not want him to fix it, tell you what to do etc just listen and sympathise! I did this to DH the other day and it helps inordinately.

[forevergreek]

Can you all get in bed together after lunch for a nap? Will toddler nap with you? Just explain its nap time and everyone even you are sleepy. If they can see that you are dozing next to them thy might too. I know what you mean as nearly 3 year old here can't get through the day without a nap either

[Mummydoctor]

Oh you poor love! You ARE dealing with so much right now, aside from the lack of sleep. If it helps, my DS1 was just 2 when DS2 was born. We had major (it seemed it at the time) sleep issues around 6 weeks later - refusing to nap, overtired at bedtime and not staying in bed at night.
One night he was up and down like a yoyo for nearly 5 hours whilst DS2 slept peacefully, until he then woke up and took over from his brother.

Do you think your DS is ready to drop his nap? Would you be able to have some really quiet cuddly time reading a book, watching a kids DVD or even CBeebies? I used to sneak in a quick snooze on sofa whilst DS was chilling out. If he did nap, you could wake him after 30 mins to help bedtimes. I found moving bedtime forward helped when no nap.

Could your husband give you a lie in at weekends? He doesn't seem very understanding. Sorry if you said already, but have you told him how broken you feel? Are PILs able to help out a bit in the day or are they out?

Do remember though a new year will be here soon and it WILL get better.

[lovebunny]

you're doing amazingly well, by the way.

[lovebunny]

pack picnic. take books toys and both babies and go to bed. regularly. day or night.

[ditziness]

Nursery days are actually the worst because he falls asleep on the commute back, so has an hour and a half at half five, then is a horrible grumpy mess when he gets back. If we put him straight to bed, he's up in the night and awake at 5am.

Thanks for all the sympathy. Think I just need a rant. Just feel like I'm continually being resilient and coping really well. But actually I'd just like someone to say "wow, you're coping with loads on not much sleep". Are you ok?" And I'd quite like it to be my husband. Toddler woke up at 530 this morning. Husband got up with him for half an hour, and then brought him into me at 6 so he could go to work. And asked me " what's wrong?" Seemingly genuinely surprised.

[Mosschopz]

Sorry it's so hard for you. I've been there with one, Christ knows what it must be like with two! I won't suggest any solutions as I remember finding that really irritating when I was in your boat and knew it wouldnt work/couldn't think it through anyway...so it's just sympathy, but lots of it - it's a really tough gig.