Tenant Didn't Pay Bills And Now Wants Me To Pay

[LessMissAbs]

Give me your opinons on this. Have been contacted by someone on behalf of ex flatmate to say they are being chased by debt collectors for a bill which was originally £270 and is now £600 for unpaid gas. I was the owner of the property but only stayed there occasionally when working in the town, and the bills were split 40/60 me/tenant in the lease. So he actually had a very good deal as pretty much sole usage of the flat and only paid 60% of all bills despite being alone 90% of the time. I gave the tenant my 40% share to pay the bills on them coming due, sometimes in cash and sometimes by cheque, so not that easy to prove although I can trace some of the cheques.

The bills were in tenant's name. I always make a point of paying bills on time but suspected getting a contribution out of tenant would be like getting blood out of a stone unless they were in his name.

On moving out, tenant got awkward and refused to return keys, so I got police involved and on their advice deducted charges for changing the locks (with) plus the outstanding amount of Council Tax, a minimal amount, and wrote a letter to him explaining this, returning about 1/3 of the deposit. The lease stated tenant was responsible for all oustanding bills incurred by him, whether covered by his deposit or not.

Tenant refused to leave a forwarding address and I did contact the utility provider to say I suspected he had outstanding bills and I wanted to use his deposit to pay them. Utility provider refused to divulge the information to me and told me it would be his duty to pay them as his name was on the bills and I need not be involved further as they would pass it onto debt collectors if necessary.

Tenant is now, 15 months later, claiming that I promised to pay all outstanding bills for him from the deductions from his deposit, and that I should pay the amount, and wants me to sort it for him. Apparantly has been to Citizens Advice who told him I should give my address to the debt collectors so they can collect the money from me.

For some reason, his ex girlfriend is involved and I have been told I am a thief, there is no record of me paying any bills for him (well, no!), I am this, I am that, karma will come and get me, etc, etc...he is sueing me for stealing his deposit...constant harassment over Facebook and asking friends for my address and saying they will send the letter about the refund to other people as "evidence".

AIBU to insist this is not my debt and to be irked?

[Cahoots]

Block them on Facebook ASAP and don't have any contact with them at all. Ignore.

[fergoose]

if it were me I would get as much proof of you paying any bills/giving tenant money towards bills and then keep them safe. I am sure they won't pursue it any further. And I agree if their harassment continues then def take some advice as to how to deal with them - you shouldn't be subjected to that treatment from anyone.

[schoolgovernor]

If what some posters say makes sense then my mum and dad could be jointly liable for my utility bills because they come to stay with me for time to time.
Op, this isn't the place to get advice on this issue. People always give out wrong information when a tenancy query comes up.

It sounds to me as if you have cause to contact the police about the abuse and defamation you're getting on social media.

[LessMissAbs]

TempusFuckit the tiny part of the deposit retained for bills was less than £50 and would in no way have covered an outstanding debt of £270. And it was applied to the council tax. The lease is quite clear that if the deposit doesn't cover the oustanding tenant's bills, the tenant is liable. The deposit was less than £400 and the cost of changing the locks took up most of what was left.

I couldn't contact him. He refused to leave a forwarding address. The utility company "didn't refuse to take my payment" but refused to discuss a third party's liability with me. They even refused to take his work address to chase him up for the bills. I did give all letters which arrived for him, including outstanding bills, to the ex girlfriend to pass onto him.

I see no reason why he could not have taken his own meter readings on moving out, contacted the utility company and got the bills squared up. He has obviously evaded them for 15 months and ignored the situation, and is now expecting someone else to sort it out for him.

[LessMissAbs]

I only stayed there when I was up visiting friends or the occasional bit of work in the city. I was actually staying with my soon-to-husband in his house. I got married and then sold the flat. I have already paid my share of the bills, so I hope it goes to court so the judge can decide who he believes. I'd certainly prefer that if they really do think they have some grievance against me, they would take it to court than continue with the abusive Facebook messages (and now messages on another forum).

Former tenant is so disorganised and unable to take responsibility for himself (oh how I wish I had never let him move in) that it is quite possible he has forgotten stuff and may actually believe that I am in some way some benefactor who is responsible for paying his way through life.

I feel like I'm being scammed.

[EmmelineGoulden]

The utility company isn't after the OP though are they? It's the ex-tenant who's asking her to pay?

[TempusFuckit]

I have no legal know-how, but if you told him you were witholding part of the deposit to cover unpaid bills, that surely weakens your case significantly? Particularly the part of the debt accrued as a result of subsequent non-payment.

I understand that you made unsuccessful efforts to pay the bills yourself, but from his point of view, you had effectively taken on responsibility to pay them when you withhold part of the deposit for that purpose.

Did you attempt to contact him to let him know the utility company was refusing to take your payment?

[fergoose]

well if the op was staying there for some time they would be liable - just for a portion of the bills. There was a test case years ago regarding a utility customer, even though their name wasn't on the bills they were liable for a portion as they had been enjoying the benefits of the utility. I used to work for British Gas and we used to quote the case regularly to customers - I'm not just quoting hearsay incase you are in any doubt.

[mycatlikestwiglets]

fergoose the OP would be unlikely to be considered to be an occupant, she only stayed there very occasionally. The tenant would be directly liable for the bills in all likelihood

[LessMissAbs]

Well I can dig back through my bank records and cheque books and find some records of my payments. For some reason I didn't expect to be presented with someone else's bill so sometimes paid the relatively small amounts in cash. I guess if they do bring it as a small claim (and tbh I am really hoping they do, because its the proper way of dealing with things), the judge will just decide who is the more plausible.

The other reason I'd love them to go to court is that I'd really like to find out what happened to my contributions towards the bills. £270 represents about 9 months of non-payment of bills on his part, and I wonder what he has done with my money towards them.

But yes, they actually think I should pay the full £600 debt now being pursued against him by debt collectors!

I think you are very right about not doing business with friends mycat although tbh they were people I met when I first moved here and then realised I didn't have that much in common with. They all seem to rent each other's houses off each other and its all very incestuous.

[fergoose]

no that is wrong - all occupants are jointly liable, regardless of whose name is on the bill.

[Sunnywithachanceofshowers]

OP, it might be worth calling Shelter for some legal advice about this - they help landlords as well as tenants.

[mycatlikestwiglets]

There are two separate points here which you need to bear in mind:

1. The tenant's name was on the bills, so it is the tenant who is directly liable to the utility companies, not you.
   

1. However, you say in the OP that the lease splits the responsibility for bills 60/40 between you. That means that the tenant has a right of recourse against you for your share if you haven't paid it (so although the tenant has primary responsibility for the bills, he has a separate contractual claim against you for your share).
   

If you can show that you gave your share of each and every bill to the tenant to pay, you are absolutely in the right here. However, if you didn't, there could be an issue. If it's the case that you gave the money to the tenant and he didn't pay, any debt which has built up as a result will absolutely be his problem and not yours.

Sorry to hear about your situation btw, it's a salutary lesson not to do business with friends because when things go wrong they seem to go very wrong.

[LessMissAbs]

It was 15 months ago and I'm in a part of the UK where the tenants deposit scheme was'nt in force then. I withheld roughly 2/3 of his deposit, most of which was taken up by the cost of changing the locks, and the remainder for his unpaid estimated share of bills since the last quarterly one, unpaid council tax for that short period and also cleaning costs, because I had to clean the carpet once he moved out. It wasn't a massive deposit to start with and certainly wouldn't have covered £270 of unpaid bills at that stage, even if I had retained it all.

Its true, he may lie in court but even so the bills are in his name and he should have paid them. I suspect what has happened is that the debt collectors have finally tracked him down, perhaps at his work, and the debt has now accumulated to £600 and he is panicked. For some reason, he always phones his ex girlfriend and puts on the sob story whenever he is upset, and the pair of them have concocted this scheme to to try and make me pay off his outstanding debts. Perhaps they honestly believe for some unknown reason that retaining part of a deposit means a tenant is absolved for all liability on existing debts. That is what they are trying to tell me.

Thats the only logical explanation I can think of, because theres certainly no rational in any of the rest of it. And I am now being blamed by two vindictive nutters for not paying a grown man's bills for him, and for refusing to sort out his debts.

Thanks all for your helpful comments, I'm horrified people could behave in this way. As if I'm some kind of cash cow for them to turn to when they need their debts paid.

[fergoose]

if you were living at the property at the same time you could actually be liable for some of the bill - regardless of whose name is on the account

You are considered to be 'mutually enjoying' the utilities so if it went to court you may be pursued for some of the bill.

[schoolgovernor]

The bill was in the tenant's name and he was responsible for paying for it. The 60/40 split in the agreement is a separate issue, and won't make op responsible for paying any part of the bill to the utility company. As was made clear when she contacted them.

[EmmelineGoulden]

Presumably the deposit was held in a scheme and you have documentation about the amount you withheld and why, and the rest is documented as being returned to him? So it will be clear and documented that you did not withhold deposit to pay off bills.

If the contract says utilities are split 40/60 and you cannot document all the 40% you gave to him, he may be able to lie and so claim what's left of that 40% back off you again. But you have discharged your actual obligation and I'd wait for him to go to small claims court for, presumably, less than £100 if he has the gall.

[schoolgovernor]

p.s. The reason I think that you haven't registered the deposit is because if you had you wouldn't have had the choice of holding back some of it to pay his bill. It would have been dealt with by the TDS, and they wouldn't withhold for that reason.
You can be fined for not registering the deposit (info available on-line) but there is no point in confusing that with this issue. So for example if someone tells you to pay the bill in case the tenant decides to report you for not registering - they could do that anyway whether or not you pay. So personally I'd just keep quiet about it and hope they don't.

[schoolgovernor]

On here you will get mixed advice, some of it incorrect (some of the above is already). Use your landlords insurance to get some advice, or get over to a landlords' forum and post there. I don't think CAB will advise you because they consider that as a landlord you are running a business, but you can try.
The occupier of the property is responsible for notifying utilities providers that they are there, and for paying the bills. If you just stayed very occasionally when in town (and you obviously had a personal link to the tenant through your ex-friend) then I can't see that would make you liable to pay any bills at all. I'm sure legal advice will confirm this.
The only niggle I have with your post is that you are talking about a deposit as if you dealt with it yourself. When did the tenancy start? I suspect that you are in breach of your legal obligation to register the deposit with a Tenant Deposit Scheme, where it would have been held until the tenancy ended.
Whatever you do, I feel you should stop engaging with your ex tenant, his girlfriend, utility providers etc until you have had some proper advice. Don't do anything to admit liability at this stage.

[samandi]

Oops, sorry just saw you returned the rest of the deposit after locks etc. YANBU.

[samandi]

Why didn't you just return his deposit as you couldn't pay the bills? Then it's nothing to do with you anymore and up to the debt collection company to chase him if they want.

[spoonsspoonsspoons]

If you stayed at the property as well he was a lodger not a tenant. This is likely to affect the legalities of the situation

[HecatePropylaea]

Just block her on fb so she can't send you messages and let him deal with the bills.

Gather all the evidence you have in case he does take you to court. you know the truth. And he does too. If he's being chased - it's his own fault and he knows it.

[RantyMcRantpants]

Who is liable to pay the bill

The occupier of the property is normally responsible for paying water charges. If someone shares accommodation, the liability is shared even if the bill is only in one name. An occupier who remains in a property after the person with whom they shared has left (for example, if partners have separated) may be held responsible for current charges and any arrears. The company may also seek to recover money owed by the person who has left the accommodation.

From the above it appears to matter not if your name was on the bill for water

www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/old_consumer_w/consumer1_energy_and_water_e/consumer1_water_e/water_supply.htm

For electricity and gas, seems to be different.
www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_energy_and_water_supply_e/consumer_energy_supply_e/consumer_energy_bills_e/consumer_understanding_your_energy_bill_e/who_is_responsible_for_paying_the_energy_bills_.htm

[Mosman]

I do not believe they have even been to the CAB. Debt in your name is to be paid by you even if you took a loan out and gave it to somebody else it's is still your responsibility, the CAB would not have said anything else