to think English teachers should be able to spell?

[teenyweenytadpole]

DD is yr 7 so just started new school, just as background she is excellent at English, put forward for level 6 SATs (got a high 5 in the end which she was delighted with). Anyway I was looking through her school books and noticed her English teacher had commented "I liked how each sentence had some good descripsion" and then added "check to see theres no missing words". So poor spelling, poor grammar and poor punctuation! I am not very impressed but feel if I comment to the school it seems kind of petty. I just think it's a shame, English is DD's best subject and I would hope that she would be taught by teachers with a more impressive command of the language than this.

[Brycie]

No need to apologise at all, I should be really

[Thewidewideworld]

I wasn't cross with you personally, Brycie, apologies if I seemed rude. I just get frustrated with this attitude you get on MN quite a lot that everyone who has ever been to school knows as much about teaching as qualified teachers. Sorry if you copped the flak for it.

[ravenAK]

To be fair, Brycie, I would probably have been equally dismissive before I started teaching.

14 years of teaching have made me better informed as to the value of peer assessment - done properly, which saves me no time whatsoever, but is of considerable benefit to my students.

Honestly, you might think you 'understand what it's for ', but you clearly don't understand how it works!

Still, no reason why you should.

[Brycie]

Well I hope you were not that cross. Best wishes.

[Brycie]

Wideworld thank yhou for the nice reply. I don't mean to be arrogant but I have my opinion. It was assumed I didn't understand what it's for - the thing is, I DO understand and I still don't agree that is valuable in the way you say. In this case, understanding does nt =tolerance! I think teachers are right about plenty of things and wrong about plenty of things, they are not omniscient and sometimes, sometimes, teachers don't see the wood for the trees.

[Thewidewideworld]

I think Brycie that it is not that we don't see the cost but that you don't see the whole picture. Peer assessment is just one tool among many that teachers use. We know it works. If we only focused on peer assessment as a tool for improving the English skills of our pupils of course we would be failing them badly, but that is not the case. All good English teachers are constantly teaching a wide range of different skills, including spelling, punctuation and grammar, and we do this using a variety of methods. Some of this may look different to the way things were done when you were at school, but it is, if you don't mind me saying so, very arrogant of you to assume that because trained professionals now do things differently to the way you believe they should be done that you are right and they are wrong. Would you tell a doctor that you don't think their proposed treatment is correct because your illness was treated differently in the past? Or would you accept that as a trained professional she knew what she was doing? The reason teachers tend to get a bit frustrated in discussions like this is because there is a considerable body of professional knowledge and understanding underlying what we do and very few posters seem to take account of this.

[Brycie]

Never I should say, I absolutely don't think it's laziness at all that leads to peer assessment, I would not go along with that accusation. I accept that teachers really believe it is valuableand really cannot see the cost.

[Thewidewideworld]

OK Brycie. Disagree all you like, that's your privilege. When are you doing your teacher training?

[Brycie]

Sorry, I should say - it's my experience that it isn't always looked at by a teacher. (nor homework marked, come to that).

[Brycie]

If the teacher always looks at the work and corrects it, that's as it should be but it's still a bit of a waste of valuable teaching time. Much needed, if the spelling in the above peer assessment is anything to go by.

[Brycie]

You shouldn't get upset really, peer assessment will always be with us, what I think (or many other parents) makes no difference at all. So what if homework doesn't get marked? So what if classwork is never looked at by a teacher? Nothing will change, all we can do is whinge, powerlessly, so really you should be pleased. It doesn't matter if I'm wrong, or if you are wrong - it won't change. Bad spellers will be marking the work of other bad spellers next year and the year after that.

[natwebb79]

Brycie - peer assessment is in addition to teacher assessment. It doesn't replace it. Two trained professionals have assured you that it is a valuable practice now.

[natwebb79]

Thewidewideworld - as a teacher myself I was about to offer an explanation of the value of peer assessment but you beat me to it and explained it brilliantly. I guess some people prefer to continue thinking that it's a case of teachers being lazy

[Brycie]

"Help them in learning to evaluate their own learning and in interpreting assessment criteria" - they should not need to mark each others work to do this
"increasing feedback to students" - from their peers? they don't want that - they want and need assessment from someone, a teacher, who knows their stuff
"reducing marking loads for staff" - uh huh
"giving students a sense of ownership of the assessment process" - at the cost of teacher assessment
"encouraging students to be more involved and take more responsibility for their learning" - at the cost of teacher assessment

"However, disadvantages may be encountered when students lack the ability to evaluate each other, do not take it seriously, or fear discrimination." you can say that again

Worthwhile in Y13 and 13? maybe. Worthwhile in class debate? definitely. Worth the cost in teacher assessment otherwise? Not in my opinion. I'll have to beg to differ.

[Thewidewideworld]

I provided an explanation several posts down. Perhaps you'd like to read it again.

[Brycie]

Do share.

[Thewidewideworld]

Brycie - you don't. Quite clearly.

[Brycie]

ravenak I do, I don't think much of it though. Each sentence might not have had good descripsion and there may have been no missing words. But where's the teacher to point that out?

[Spermysextowel]

What is peer assessment? I remember my sister marking other pupils' books, but that was back in the 70s & my parents just thought it was the teachers being rather lazy.

[ravenAK]

Oh good, I thought it might be peer assessment.

Nice thoughtful comments from fellow year 7 pupil, although I'd get them to be slightly more precise if top set - what was good about the description? What techniques were used? - & maybe highlight examples in their peer's work.

Brycie, I think it's fair, & kindest, to say that you don't fully understand what peer assessment is.

[WilfSell]

We had a good old guffaw at DS3's leaflet, which arrived exactly as typed below:


Your literacy target for this term is:

to use more capital letters and full stops at the end of your sentences

[Thewidewideworld]

TeenyWeeny - thanks for coming back and clearing that up! I am so pleased to be right about what the likely explanation was!

Brycie - I think you are failing to understand the point of peer assessment. It is an important skill that we need to teach so that by the time they reach KS4 age children are able to take an objective view of the their own work and that of others and understand how to apply success criteria and recognise what level they are at and what they need to do to improve. Without that skill they are unable to analyse their work. Very few Y7s can do it well, it is a difficult thing to master, but they need to practise it.

[Brycie]

It's still rubbish. The teacher should be checking it.

[teenyweenytadpole]

OMG I am so embarrassed - sorry everyone but in turns out the comments were made by a classmate, they had been doing some form of peer assessment. I stand corrected and am very sorry!!

[Brycie]

Cardibach, I doubt your last sentence. And who are peers to judge "what makes a good newspaper article". Half the time the teachers don't know.