speed limit to 20

[swallowthree]

To agree with people who want to reduce the speed limit to 20 in built up areas. Given the number of lives it could save, I think its a no brainer - isn't it ? Who could possibly object and why ?

[BerylStreep]

Someone asked how many of the posters are advanced drivers.

I am .

I would still support a 20mph limit on appropriate roads.

[startail]

Please keep to limits for housing estate where children play and places where they absolutely make sense (the tiny village I know with one is fine, it's so twisty with houses right against the road that doing much more is near impossible anyway).
If you have too many of them they will be ignored, just like our local councils ridiculous addiction to 50 limits on perfectly decent A roads. The more of them there are the less notice people are taking of them.
We have several places where junctions go of twisty sections of road where they are justified, but they are now everywhere. Truly dangerous stretches of road are lost in such a mishmash of signs and slow down paint that it is just confusing.

[Want2bSupermum]

Grimma Where I live there is only on stretch of road within the township that doesn't have a sidewalk. Everywhere else has sidewalks and a lot of people use the train to commute to work. Most of our friends here share a car with their OH. The school bus now only transports children who are disabled as everyone else is within a mile of their elementary school. Before they used to also transport children in elementary schools. The town has decided that those in middle and high school can walk the distance - max is just over 2 miles in each direction.

A lot of children and adults are walking where I live and also a fair number cycle.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Also, in the UK so many pedestrians saunter accross the street without through for the driver. Yes they get priority but it should only be at designated crossings.

When I lived in the US there seemed to be vast swathes of residential areas where you couldn't walk at all ... you had to go to a state park or a mall. The UK is different - we are still a nation capable of walking as a means of transport. People walking or riding/driving horses made most of our roads, not cars.

Obviously pedestrians should cross with care, and use crossings if you're in the zigzag zone, but the concept of 'jaywalking' is entirely alien.

[Want2bSupermum]

Driving here in the US most of town is at 25mph. In areas close to schools the limit is 20mph and it is enforced. Speed cameras have not taken off here... yet. Very few people speed because we have lots of police who will stop you if you are speeding or driving recklessly (far higher fines and points). They may or may not give you a ticket but they will give you a hard time. The experience isn't pleasant so people obey the limit to avoid being stopped. My back light is out and I have asked DH to pick up a new bulb so I don't get stopped when I go out later today. That is how strict they are. Ironically at night they don't care and will happily turn a blind eye to people who drink and drive (fills me with rage).

In the UK I have never been stopped for speeding. Sure I have had a summons through the mail to tell me a month after the fact but that did NOTHING to change my behaviour. Also, in the UK so many pedestrians saunter accross the street without through for the driver. Yes they get priority but it should only be at designated crossings. Good luck contesting a ticket where I live if you don't stop at a crosswalk. The judge in our town would probably double you fine. However, if the pedestrian jaywalks then it is acknowledged that the driver is not at fault and they, or their parents if under 18, must pay for damages to property etc. Guess what... no one jaywalks because parents are making their children cross the road at the proper place.

[MonstrouslyNarkyPuffin]

Ah. Was just going to ask MNHQ to delete my comment as it was harsh - though it was honestly what I thought when I saw your name; I blame MN.

Now, meh.

[Feminine]

Oh poor loveglove

Have a sit down dear.

[Feminine]

(((hugs)) loveglove

[loveglove]

They all have very good safety instruction here, but childhood gets the better of them, and they dart out or how you very aptly put it "piss about"

I know what speed I like to be doing, when a childish whim takes them! smile

You can fuck off with your passive aggressive comments and smilies about this.

It is NOT a "childish whim" to do a handstand in the middle of the road in front of a driver you have seen coming.

It is not a "childish whim" to look at an oncoming driver and continue to play ball in the road and refuse to get out of the way.

It is not a "childish whim" to look directly at the car driver and continue to do so grinning while dancing around in the road.

How can you even describe this behaviour as a "childish whim" if they are well educated about the dangers posed by a two tonne moving vehicle? Two tonnes of vehicle moving at 20mph still has the potential to kill you.

It also seems to have gone over your head entirely that I mentioned I am crawling along speed wise because I am aware of the danger!

[swallowthree]

I did concede on some areas Pendeen - like maybe not always 20 and maybe not all built up areas. But there are loads of studies showing how benefits of reduced speed - thats whats being ignored. I'm sure the government will be more influenced by their buddies with their nose in the trough than by hard evidence. But going round in circles with some of you people now really - I think I'd get more from reading more widely around the subject and I think some of you should try some other influences than Top Gear and the Daily Mail. Thats me out of here.

[MarginallyNarkyPuffin]

Yes. Life is a balance of risks. So on most residential streets reducing the limit to 20mph is worthwhile. On A roads it isn't.

[Whatmeworry]

No. It's speed. Drive badly and hit a pedestrian at 20mph they're likely to survive. Hit the person at 30mph and their odds decrease dramatically

....and at 10mph its better still, and at 0 mph its perfect, so why not that speed then?

The reason is the tradeoffs, which none of you seem willing to think about.

[MarginallyNarkyPuffin]

On the autobahn there aren't pedestrians. To go at 90/100 on the motorway is a lot safer than going at 40 in a built up area.

[southeastastra]

i don't think it's too much to stick to 20 in built up areas and it's true that speeding kills. a little boy died round here and his parents have been lobbying for 20mph around the area for years. it's not happened :(

i think sometime we have to accept the accidents are just that; accidents.

but making people stick to lower limits in some areas would also help.

where i go to college, boys drive up and down the back roads at about 50mph it's absolute madness but no-one is interested in policing them

[Pendeen]

I think it's time to give up as the OP clearly is not interested in all the rational arguments against her position but sticks doggedly to the view that the number 20 is the panacea.

I suspect the government will not agree with her.

Incidentally, I have been driven at speeds ranging from 70mph to over 130mph on a journey from Frankfurt to Munich - and back again - in perfect safety.

There is nothing magical about our 70mph limit either and the government seem to agree with this!

[MarginallyNarkyPuffin]

No. It's speed. Drive badly and hit a pedestrian at 20mph they're likely to survive. Hit the person at 30mph and their odds decrease dramatically.

[MrsPeterDoherty]

It's bad driving that kills, not speed. People driving too slowly, like octo, cause accidents as other drivers become angry and frustrated and go on to take unnecessary risks. For example, overtaking when there is insufficient time, simply to get ahead of the inconsiderate driver holding everyone up.

20mph is fine outside schools etc first thing and say, 3 til 4pm. There is no reason to restrict speed outside schools 24 hours a day

[Whatmeworry]

In other words you are dismissing the one and only existing complete study as it disagrees with your preconceived opinions.

Re the 120 mph, have you ever heard the word "Autobahn?"

[swallowthree]

Thanks for the comments - interesting to find out all sides to this. Some have made me think this through a bit more but others are quite disturbing. I hope the person who thinks 120mph is acceptable in some conditions gets caught - for their own sake and for the sake of everyone else on the roads. To say the Portsmouth everything 20 "didn't work" is massively overstating the case on evidence that has little statistical significance. Far more relevant is numerous worldwide research showing consistently that reducing speed limits reduces fatalities and serious injuries. Closer to home, a reduction to 20 on 25% of roads in Hull lead to a 90% reduction in serious injuries and fatalities from road accidents over three years - to name but one example, there are many more. Hope some of the committed speeders will think about this a bit more. No one has the right to speed and saving a couple of minutes on a journey really isn't as important as saving lives.

[Feminine]

whatme I have been in the US for 6+ years ,so I have to admit that what works here...may not elsewhere?

I suppose I need to get back to the UK ... not just cos I've had enough here:)

Thanks for explaining further...I am going to ponder, till I do the school run back home!

[niceguy2]

To agree with people who want to reduce the speed limit to 20 in built up areas. Given the number of lives it could save, I think its a no brainer - isn't it ? Who could possibly object and why ?

Well if it's about saving lives then surely the sensible thing to do is to reduce the speed limit to 0 mph. That way noone dies needlessly from getting run over.

Those who are arguing for a 20mph mustn't care about all those people who could die/get injured from a speeding car at 20mph.

Who could possibly object eh? Won't someone please think of the children.