Private rental carpet question

[knittedbreast]

Just got a letter from my letting agent as we are moving out.

They say I have to get the carpets professionally cleaned and they need to see a receipt to prove it.

Do I really have to?

Thanks

[bamboobutton]

if it's not in your contract and you haven't signed anything that says you will pay then they can go swivel.

we just moved into a new rental place. a few days after we moved in we got a letter through saying we had to professionally clean the carpets and have the place professionaly cleaned by pest control

i phoned up and told the agents it wasn't in our contract and we hadn't signed anything to agree to do this so tough, we're not doing it, they backed down and said ok.

[tyler80]

Actually holidaysoon, they'd be lucky to claim anything for a 10 year old carpet. Charging you for a 10 year old carpet would be betterment as instead of the landlord getting a 10 year old carpet without a wine stain they'd be getting a brand new carpet.

We've always just hired a rug doctor, two of the places we've rented had cream carpet throughout so it was necessary irrespective of what the contract stipulated.

The only time I thought they could ask for receipts for carpet cleaning was if you had pets. Normally they can see for themselves whether the carpets are clean or not on check out, why the need to see a receipt as well?

[knittedbreast]

holidaysoon i meant what do you mean about allowing views after the youve left the house of somehting?

didnt really understand.. i know nothing about any racism accusations sorry, just come back after a looooong break :)

[sarahtigh]

they will deduct far more from deposit for doing it than it would cost you, so you need to to it to save money you spend £30 now and get it done all deposit back or you dont spend £50 and deposit is returned minus £200 you are £150 worse off no-brainer

unless not in contract letting agent will have a copy and a copy of inventory you signed so you can check yourself prior to them checking

[sarahtigh]

technically legally you do not have to let landlord show prospective new tenants around just before your tenancy ends, he is only entitled to access if there is an emergency like a boiler burst etc

it is courtesy to allow viewings but should always be with notice and at a time convienent to you not 8am on sunday or 9.30pm unless of course that suits

[knittedbreast]

thanks sarah

thing is i just dont have the money, literally cant afford it. they have all my money.

well i cant do it so thats the end of it i guess

[BonzoDooDah]

If it's not in a contract you have signed to agree with then I would not do it. I'd ask them to provide a copy of an agreement signed by you saying this was the condition. If they cannot tell them you will leave the carpets clean and if they deduct money from you for carpets you will take them to the small claims court.

I never had to have carpets "professionally" cleaned on leaving - they just had to be clean. Which was a nightmare in the last house with all-over cream carpets and one of the people helping us move had a pice of charcoal caught in the sole of his shoe and walked it through the house!!!

[TheQueenOfDeDead]

Most tenancy agreements have carpet cleaning as a standard clause these days and even without if they were cleaned before you moved in you will have to do it before you move out.

I can see why you would prefer the agents to deduct from the deposit if cash flow is tight at the moment but remember they will charge you a grossly inflated price so if you can possibly find the money up front then it'd probably be in your interests.

[holidaysoon]

OK I'm confusing things here sorry

the racism (oh no it was xenophobia!!!) was a completely different thread and WRONG

tyler you need to read my post (sorry if it is not clear) you are saying exactly what I said

allowing viewings is when you are in the house but have given or been given notice landlord usually wants to bring people round (they don't want a void) it is usually in the contract that you will allow viewings, it is unenforcable since it goes against your statutary right of quiet enjoyment.

FWIW is your agent any good? do you like them they you? is the carpet OK? do you have pets/

we had one flat with new carpets contract said clean because they were new i thought we'd better even though they looked OK I phoned agent and they told us who they use some great guy came round and cleaned whole 2 bed flat in London for about 80 quid it looked new after so would have been noticable they would have charged us and I believe it would have been more. (Sadly I'm sure it was unnec. because of all the damp damage they would have had to work on no proper roof on flat despite it being flat!!)
on another occasion I've hired a rug doctor and that worked and i kept the receipt.

However i'm pretty good at getting my deposit back and in the last place I cleaned they commentated that it had never looked so good!!

[holidaysoon]

OK sorry I'm a very slow typer [shame]

[holidaysoon]

were the carpets new
do any of your friends have a carpet cleaner you can borrow?

freecycle (getting desperate here)

[billysolloxx]

ex letting agent. No if it doesnt say anything on your contract you do NOT have to clean the carpets IF they are in the same condition as when you moved in. Take close pictures of your carpets as proof incase landlord tampers after you leave. If he takes it out of your bond ask for the original reciept to make sure its a valid amount taken.

[NinkyNonker]

I rent out my flat and the contract (standard drawn up by agent) has a clause in there stating this would have to be done. I like my tenants and if I could see they didn't need doing I may waive it, but at the end of the day it is a clause in the contract...if you have one it would be cheaper for you to find someone and get it done than go with whatever the agent arrange.

[breadandbutterfly]

Even if your contract states they need to be professionally cleaned this would only stand up in court if (a) they could prove they had been professionally cleaned before you moved in and (b) they have photos (dated) proving the state of the carpets when you moved in and again when you moved out. The reason for this is to prevent cheeky landlords claiming filthy, half-mouldy rags were 'perfect' when you moved in, when in fact that's what they were like when you took over the tenancy.

You are not required to return the property in a better state than you received it! Nor are you expected to return the propety in the same state you received it, you are expected to return it in the same state you received it MINUS NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. What this means in practice is that if you've been living there for many years and have cheap pale beige carpets in areas of heavy traffic, for example (typical of rental properties), that some aging of the carpet by the normal process of wear and tear would be acceptable. In fact, I recall reading that a percentage of what can be claimed by the landlord for replacement of carpets decreases in practice year by year - so if you've been living there for 10 years, even if the carpet is now black with ingrained dirt, the landlord couldn't claim a penny because reasonably they should have replaced the carpet by that time.

In our ex-rented house, our landlady tried it on with the carpet cleaning (we'd been there 6 years and she had no photos or proof at all of the state of the property either when we left or moved in, and no independent inventory done when we left (we'd agreed the inventory when we moved in)), so every single one of her claims was thrown out by the independent ombudsman, and our deposit returned in full.

Try not to stress, OP - clean the carpet as well as possible, and if you can hire/borrow a carpet cleaner and do it yourself, then great. Otherwise, just state you have cleaned it. Do take photos in case the landlord/agency attempt to claim you poured black ink over it or something! All of what I have said applies to other areas in the house too - professional cleaning cannot be demanded, whatever they say - you and family/friends scrubbing is acceptable (obviously not if you fail to clean, but 'professionally' clean is not required). Also, do take as many dated photos as possible - use camera with date facility or email photos to yourself when you check out etc - to prove that you have left the house in a good condition.

Sadly there are some criminal landlords out there who will do anything to get tenants' cash, including those who seem to have problems with the concept of wear and tear, and imagine a family of tenants can live in a house for years on end and yet it WILL LOOK IDENTICAL TO THE DAY THEY MOVED IN. Grr. Landlords to whom it is an affront that their tenants are anything other than human £ signs, occupying no physical space at all, but transferring money magically to their bank accounts on the same day every month.

[breadandbutterfly]

Assuming your deposit is in a deposit protection scheme, I found the whole system very fair and thorough though rather long-winded.

If it's not in a deposit protection scheme, the agency/landlord is breaking the law, and owes you 3 your deposit before you've even started.

[breadandbutterfly]

That should have been 3X your deposit.

[MoreBeta]

Normally, you have to leave the house in the same condition as when you entered - fair wear and tear allowed. That means if it was clean when you entered the property it has to be clean on exit and that means the carpet needs to be profesisonally cleaned if it was professionally cleaned before you started the tenancy.

The invenory check should have noted the state of teh carpet. We have rented for 25 years and always make clear we will have the carpet cleaned professionally on exit if the landlord agres to have it professionally cleaned before we enter.

I prefer a spotless carpet before I enter a property so dont mind doing it on exit. If it is filthy to start with I am willing to clean it to my standard but not do it again before I leave. Only one LL has ever objected to this proposal and expected me to clean her dirt of the carpet on entry and leave it spotless on exit. I refused.

The bottom line is the LL/agent can't use your deposit money to put the property in a better condition than it was when you started the tenancy.

[breadandbutterfly]

I think that is nice, moreBeta, but as I understand it, 'professional' cleaning is not required in law,, in that there is no technical definition of what something looks like when it is 'professionally' clean versus just, well, clean.

Obviously, if you've made the carpet very dirty, or had a particularly helpful landlord, then it is nice to do it. But reasonable wear and tear does not mean 'perfect'.

[EllaDee]

Sorry ... what do you mean 'they never sent it'? The contract? They don't 'send' it, you sign it and keep your copy.

I expect you will be ok with the carpet but you need to keep a copy of your contract. Do you have the inventory? I just can see a lot of potential for your LL to mess you around if you have no proof of what you signed up to.

[breadandbutterfly]

Just seen that bit - you should have received (at the time or later) a copy of your signed tenancy agreement. There is no separate lease.

Much more importantly, do you have the copy of the letter from the tenancy deposit scheme? If they never sent that, by law they owe you three times the total deposit straight off. Your deposit MUST be held in a deposit protection scheme. They may not make ANY deductions without your agreement; if you do not agree, an independent ombudsman decides instead.

[HerScaryness]

bread and morebeta said everything I would say, and I am an inventory clerk.

OP, do you have an inventory, that was specifically prepared for your tenancy?

If not, then don't worry, the LL wouldn't be able to prove that anything was clean, and would have no receipts. You can just refuse to accept the deductions and take it the deposit scheme and they will rule in your favour.

If a LL wants to take a penny off you, they have to prove they spent it in the first place AND also prove the accurate condition of the property at YOUR check in.

If you do have an inventory that states that the property was cleaned professionally including carpets, tbh you are expected to return the property in the condition you got it in. and yes that includes cleaning the carpet and treating it with pesticide if you've had pets.

If you don't the cost of cleaning will be legitimately deducted from your deposit.

[Trills]

bread and morebeta sounds a bit like bread and butter in my head

[MoreBeta]

HerScaryness - am I right in thinking if there is no inventory there can be no deductions either as the condition was not noted at the beginining?

[mousyfledermaus]

we have the 'carpet professionally cleaned' clause in our contract - we don't have any carpet...

[breadandbutterfly]

There have to be inventories at both ends - either independent or agreed by both parties. Thhat's why we won our case against our ex-landlady - we had an inventory we'd signed when we moved in, but nothing when we moved out. So she could not prove anything about the supposed 'poor' state of the house when we moved out. Which was not surprising, given everything she claimed was invented.