To stop my dad and his wife from seeing DD?

[TheRealMrsHannigan]

Long story short, about a month ago there was a spectacular falling out, as a result my DH and I no longer speak to my dad and his wife.

Things were said, hurtful things were done and we haven't seen them since.

Now, my DSis has asked if she can take DD over to visit them in a few weeks.

I have said no, on the grounds that DH, DD and I come as a package, they cannot pick and choose who they wish to include in their family. I also think things would be said about my DH and I in earshot of DD, and I do not want her around people who may well bad mouth her parents.

So, am I being unreasonable by denying her a relationship with them?

To complicate things further, they have a DS and DD (3 years and 10 weeks old), I have said DSis is welcome to meet me at a soft play or other neutral ground with them so DD can still see them. (This may well seem hypocritical, BUT it was my Dad's wife basically calling me a liar over a big issue and my dad sided with her that caused the falling out).

I hope I have made sense, it is very complicated! I just dont see why they feel they should still see my DD, when I have been called a liar, troublemaker etc and DH slagged off to the moon and back.

[NorfolkBroad]

YANBU how dreadful for you. There is no way I could be around someone who had behaved like that towards me and for your dad to support her....really upsetting. Poor you.

[kelly2000]

First of all your father has not asked to see DD. If sister mentions it again, tell her that your father has not contacted you to ask permission to see dd.
Secondly why would you send your child to someone so unstable that they hear something they do not like and come in yelling and screaming.
Thirdly, I assume as you will not be there father and stepmum will be able to have her brother there with your DD.
Forth, do you seriously think stepmum would have been fine if it were not for the brother issue. he wa snot invited yet he turned up. They had every intention of creating a fuss and ruining the day, and no intention of staying for the day.
If your father wants a relationship with you he will call you and apologize for his behaviour. If he only wants you in his life on the condition you pretend your step uncle did not creep onto you and that you pretend his wifes behaviour is your fault then he does not want a relationship with you he wants to be able to control you (as i suspect he lets his wives walk all over him).

[microserf]

i'd not let my kids anywhere near this toxic family. best off not shuttling between houses full of tension with each other - it'll just cause unnecessary stress. And i think your oldest will be able to understand if they slag you off.

as Proudnscary says: "They ruined your wedding day - I don't say that in a prima-donna-by-proxy way, but in a only-supremely-selfish-buttholes-would-do-that-to-someone way."

I couldn't say it any better.

[cricketballs]

apologies op; I read it as her son not brother. As I said, I agree with you fully and was just playing devil's advocate in the questions that I raised.

Have you thought about writing a letter? If not just to try to calm things, at least then you can take the upper hand (morally speaking) that you have tried to come to some settlement etc without screaming and shouting.

good luck [big hugs]

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"I should have guessed this is how it would turn out, my Dad has form for not sticking up for his kids (There was a brouhaha with his 2nd wife, SM is his 3rd, and my elder DSis when we were quite young and we never stepped foot in their home again, we saw him at my grandmothers for years instead)."
Perhaps you should remind your sister of this, it might help to get her off your back. TBH, the more I hear of your father, the less I think of him.

[AnotherJaffaCake]

YANBU. My children don't have a relationship with their grandfather, due to a huge family row. They haven't seen him for nearly a year. The row was vicious and nasty with my father telling me that my DH was not a member of his family. I was expected to choose between my father and my husband. Of course I chose DH.

[blackeyedsusan]

yanbu. it will take a very long time to get over a hurt like that. for people to demand that you forgive without an acknowledgment of the wrong and hurt caused is unreasonable. your dad let you dowwn badly. you are not unreasonable to not let dd see him because he can not be trusted to protect your dd from sgm and her brother.

[Proudnscary]

an not a, sorry

[Proudnscary]

I think it would be very wise to keep yourselves and your children away from these people - just because they are 'family' does not mean your dd will derive any emotional value from seeing them.
They ruined your wedding day - I don't say that in a prima-donna-by-proxy way, but in a only-supremely-selfish-buttholes-would-do-that-to-someone way.

[CelticStarlight]

YANBU, what they did was vile and you are completely and utterly justified in never having anything to do with them again - there is no law saying we have to endure knobhead relatives because they share the same blood - or not, in the case of your stepmother and her letch of a brother.

As for your DD, she is young enough not to miss them. It would not be workable in the long run for her to have a relationship with them without you also having one even if you wanted her to. As it is I can't imagine in a million years why you would want her to be exposed to two such numbskulls. Stay strong, you are not in the wrong and tell your sister to keep her nose out as well.

[TheRealMrsHannigan]

cricketballs It was SM's brother not her son. I do see what you are saying and understand they would have been shocked to hear it etc, but I explained (very reasonably I think given she was shouting and hollering at me) my reasons for not saying anything at the time.

There was a group of about 20 of us abroad for their wedding, including her parents etc, if I had caused a scene at the time it would most definitely led to a falling out (I have no doubt he'd have denied any wrong doing even at the time) and that would have ruined and over shadowed their wedding. That's the last thing I wanted to do.

His name was never on an invite to my wedding, and I certainly did not send him one, I think it's pretty clear he was not meant to be at my wedding. 'Assuming' someone is invited is quite shocking to me.

I do also see that me wanting to see my DB and baby sister given I dont want them seeing my DD could be seen as hypocritcal, but apparently they have been saying to my DSis that they do not want the children to lose contact with each other. Given I dont see what I have done so wrong that warrants being cut out of their life and verbally abused on my wedding day, I'd say my suggestion was the more reasonable of the two. I will not force the issue, I am perfectly happy for my sisters to act as 'chaperones' and take my DD and DB out together so they can play etc and have contact. It is just my Dad and SM I have the issue with.

[cricketballs]

op - I do think YANBU but just to play devil's advocate here (bear me out, I am not suggesting for one minute that you are in the wrong and what happened to you is awful)

you said that you had never told your DF and SM what happened at their wedding and so how would they to know how strong your feelings were that you didn't want him at your wedding? As his son, I would imagine that SM would have just presumed that he was invited and to hear that on the day would be very shocking and she may have called you a liar as she was in defensive mode of her son as this had never been discussed before

have any of you tried to speak rationally since? Maybe writing them a letter, being honest
a) about what happened
b)your reasons for not letting them know before hand and
c) hurt you felt/are feeling about everything

at least then you will have a clear conscience in the future about trying to sort things out and not feel bad if it doesn't work.

In terms of you not allowing your DD to see them, but you are trying to 'sneak' a visit from their DC is but hypocritical to be honest. If you are cutting ties, then you have to forego all ties

[TheRealMrsHannigan]

That's one of my main bugbears tbh, the fact that DSis for example, thinks I should be the one offering an olive branch. I just cant get my head around it, and the fact that DH and I are being painted as the 'bad guys' really irks me.

I think the advice to leave things for now is the best move, I am still in that simmering with rage place and I know if I were to meet up with my dad and he dared suggest I was lying I would blow up and the relationship really would be irretrievable.

It also grates on me that they feel they can pick and choose who is part of their family. I mean realsitically do they not think that one day DD would cotton on to the fact her parents are snubbed?

I guess I am still just very angry and hurt. I should have guessed this is how it would turn out, my Dad has form for not sticking up for his kids (There was a brouhaha with his 2nd wife, SM is his 3rd, and my elder DSis when we were quite young and we never stepped foot in their home again, we saw him at my grandmothers for years instead).

[missymarmite]

I think YANBU to not allow access as thing stand now, but I do think you need to try to offer an olive branch for your own sake. I know in an ideal world you shouldn't have to make the first offer. It should be up to your dad to make the effort. However, if you do contact him, you will be the one who is acting reasonably, which will reflect badly on SM if she continues slagging you off. That doesn't mean that you take the blame, just that you suck it up for the sake of your own sanity so that you can let go and move on. If your dad doesn't respond positively, then at least you know you have done all you can.

[ShoutyHamster]

Right, your dad shows absolutely no loyalty or family feeling toward you, his daughter, on her wedding day, but now expects to have his relationship with his granddaughter maintained because he is her grandfather and family is sooo important?

I don't think so. Let it be known that you have more loyalty and place more importance on your daughter's feelings than they do on yours. Therefore you have no hesitation in protecting her from building any further relationship with a grandfather who has shown that he places no value on his family.

He chose his wife and her nasty lech of a brother and ruined your wedding day in the process - let him go and enjoy their company.

OP, yanbu. Your little family does come as a package - it's part and parcel of protecting your children as well as showing them that actions have consequences. What, do they seriously think that they can treat you like this, maintain a feud, and at the same time go over your head and keep the bits of your family they want to - i.e. 'access' to your daughter? That's almost funny. Are you and your feelings simply unimportant, then? - oh, hang on...

Tell them to get stuffed, and your sister to back right off and stop with the patronising. She knows the truth - let her stand by it, if she also values her relationship with you and YOUR family.

[JustAnother]

YANBU. I wouldn't allow DS to hang around with adults I detest, regarless of whether they are family or not.

[Thumbwitch]

Re. children having a right to know their grandparents - I have a friend whose mother never saw her father. I don't know the ins and outs of why not, but said friend didn't know her grandfather because of this. Anyway, when she was a teen, she told her mum she wanted to get in touch with her grandfather and her mum reluctantly agreed. Grandfather came waltzing back into their lives - and within a very short space of time, friend was seriously wishing she hadn't bothered. He was an alcoholic, verbally abusive and very unpleasant to her mum and not that nice to friend - in other words, no use as a grandparent at all. Such a shame for her but it made her realise that her mum had been protecting her from him all those years.

Blood relatives aren't always worth it.

[KeepInMind]

Sorry read more and actually I don't think you are unreasonable at all, keep your child away from them and stay away from them and theirs, they sound nasty as hell

[KeepInMind]

So your sister can not take your DD over to see her grandparents but you want your sister to bring your 3 year old and 10 week old half siblings to meet you

[biddysmama]

my mil ruined my wedding day and i will never forgive her but i'm still nice to her because the children love her and she loves them

[BettyCash]

YADNBU. Toxic step family!

[Stropzilla]

YANBU at all. HOWEVER I will say that I have had arguments with my stepmother, and my Dad will always, always side with her regardless. Mostly because he has to live with her I think, but it's caused some major bad feeling on my part. I've just let it go. I know they slag me off behind my back, and I recently found reason to think they may have done so in front of my DD. As a result, I never really allow her to be alone with them and I DO want a relationship with my Dad, so as far as I'm concerned I'll be careful what I tell her (and to an extent him too), I'll be polite and let DD see them with me in tow and we just don't discuss anything volatile. It's unforgivable that she put this stain on your wedding day, and yes he should have backed you up but IME they don't go against their wife.

Can you allow them back into your lives, and just not discuss the situation? It's not ideal and I know I'd rather we sorted our row but it's just not going to happen and trying to force anything else will result in a family rift which I would rather avoid. I'm not one to try to get out of arguments, but sometimes you do have to pick your battles.

[legallyblond]

Sorry - sooo many typos!

[legallyblond]

YANBU.

It is not true that "family" is sacred and shouldn't be accountable, especially not when it comes to children.

If you feel that your dad and SM are a negaitive influence (regardless of the row and wedding saga etc), it is your responsibility as a parent to protect your daughter from that.

I am very, very biased about this though... DD (now 1), has no contact whatsoever with DH's father. DH sees him but he feels he is a toxic influence (his dad is very manipulative and, and this is they key isuue, obvioously, he was sexually inapproriate towards DH when DH was a child) but I and DD do not. Ever.

Our primary responsibility if our children. If it would not be good for her to see them, she shouldn't. Your dad's/S

[Nanny0gg]

YANBU.
If your DF and stepmum treat you badly, why on earth would you let your children near them?
They're not nice people. Stay away until you get an apology.