Is this an example of abusive behaviour?

[nineteenninetyfour]

Want people's take on somethin. Not after a bunfight and I actually would prefer it if Iabu and am wrong. But please be honest all the same.
Last week, my (widowed) mum moved house. She has a lot of good qualities but organisational skills are not among them. Anyway, dh and myself gave her hand, she had done basically nothing to aid us-nothing packed etc, the time came to move washing machine and it was still full of clothes. My dh was annoyed (don't blame him, so was I) but he held his tongue and said nothing.

Now I know that had this been me (failing to take clothes out of machine ) he would have shouted, called me names and made a scene.

It's just got me wondering, really; is this abusive behaviour because he can 'keep it together' when it comes to others?

[nineteenninetyfour]

What the hell is wrong with me asking Mn's opinion? They're demographically made up of intelligent people, not idiots. SunRaysthruClouds, seriously what is your problem?
The problem is quite straightforward now I've explained it better to others and elaborated further, it's NOT that he is now suddenly stressed -where it might be logical that he has a go at everybody in his path, he has consistently and over a long period regardless of other things in his life only been like this with me and he manages to keep a cool head with everybody else no matter how provoked.
Always one who has to disagree, isn't there?

[mumeeee]

I don't think the by the example you gave OP means that your DH is abusive. I'd shout myself if that happened to me. He was just being very polite to your Mum.

[SunRaysthruClouds]

Well it appears on here as if the thought process has gone something like:

'I really don't like the way H shouts at me and throws things when he is annoyed'
'Oh - he doesn't do it to my mother'
'Therefore I think I am being abused'
'I had better check on MN'
'MN says yes so it's time to leave'

and apparently missing out things like
'DH - please can you explain why you are like this with me. I don't accept that you do it to everyone. Is there a problem you have with me or is there some other problem causing stress'
'DH - If you can't stop doing this then we should seek some expert help from outside' (and not necessarily MN)
etc

OP I am sure it's not as black and white but that is how it appears to me. My feeling is that all marriages have difficult patches and they could probably all do with a bit of help from objective sources, such as counsellors and the like.

[NevermindtheNargles]

sunrays - I don't think anyone in a happy and stable relationship would just leave because MN says so, do you? I do agree that the term 'abuse' is used quite liberally on here, but really I do think if someone makes you miserable surely you deserve better, and it doesn't really matter what you call it.

TBH if someone told me my dh was abusive, I'd just tell them to mind their own business, because he is not and I don't feel abused. Anyone who is willing to accept their partner is abusive when a stranger says so is probably just looking for confirmation of what they knew/felt already.

Sorry, I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. I just get the impression that the op had already made her mind up before she came on here, and what I was trying to say was that if you are unhappy it's ok to say so, and if the problem can't be resolved it's better to leave than stay miserable.

[SunRaysthruClouds]

Frankly this is one of the things that amazes me about MN. It is put on such a pedestal that on the basis of a few replies an OP who is unsure about the definition of abuse has decided her assumptions have been validated and she needs to leave.

OP I assume no children are involved so you can make such matter of fact statements about leaving?

As far as I am concerned the words 'abuse' and 'controlling behaviour' are bandied around far too much on here, I suspect often justified, but also often not.

[doggiesayswoof]

I'm no expert but I think it's quite common for abusive men to make lots of excuses for their behaviour, but in reality they know exactly what they're doing. I bet he blames it on you too - does he? "The way you carry on makes me see red, you wind me up so much" etc.

[nineteenninetyfour]

Thank you doggiesayswoof, I've been asking myself a question and the question is this: 'Would he get aggressive with another man who was twice his size and capable of physically getting the upper hand or, to put it crudely, beat the s* out of him?' I'm not expert on these things but to me this is an 'acid test' as to whether or not somebody genuinely has anger management problems or just abusive.

I don't think that he would. I think he would shy away from it no matter how much the other guy wound him up. So when he is aggressive to me, it's not that he sees red and has no control, it's because he uses it as a tool to mentally batter me with.

If I need further help, I shall post in relationships or simply look up old threads.

[doggiesayswoof]

Coming to this a bit late.

I understand that this is upsetting for you OP and that you don't want to carry on posting. However if you do decide you want to talk about this, you will get loads of good advice and support if you start another thread in Relationsips.

If you do decide to leave, posters here can help you with practicalities and give you support.

[nineteenninetyfour]

Well it does make me uncomfortable and scared. Of course, I'd be livid if he lost it with my mum, but at least I'd be able to say that he genuinely couldn't help himself.
The truth is that he can control his temper (a 'hot temper' being used as an excuse to break my things, chuck stuff at me in past).
Please, obviously this is a thread that anybody can post on and that is all good, but I won't be returning to this thread again as it is making me upset. Not people's responses I must stress just the fact that my dh is an arsehole and I feel obliged to reply to those who post when just thinking about what an arsehole he is riles me up and upsets me.

[jeckadeck]

sorry, didn't see OP's second post. That changes things a bit. If he's routinely an a*hole to you about things and lets other people off the hook then yes, that is abusive.

[jeckadeck]

I agree with Mitmoo that people over-use the word "abuse" on here sometimes. If its a pattern of behaviour which is repeated and which makes you upset, uncomfortable or scared then its abuse. Occasionally losing your temper with your OH about something which is a bit of a bugbear isn't abuse. And also we sometimes need to give one another license to be hot-headed and occasionally rude to our nearest and dearest. If you can't ever do that you're living in a sterile, emotionally dishonest environment. And its hardly surprising that your OH doesn't lose his temper with your mum -- let's face it you'd be livid with him if he did....

[NevermindtheNargles]

Bastard blackberry.

[NevermindtheNargles]

Bastard blackberry.

[NevermindtheNargles]

You don't 'have to leave him' if that's not what you want love. If you think he's an arsehole and he makes you unnhappy, leave him. If he makes you happy generally, but occasionally flies off the handle, tell him he needs to do something about it or you will leave him. Just because he can control it sometimes doesn't necessarily mean anger management/counselling won't work. It's all about what you want. If you want to try and he's willing then give it a go. If you are miserable and afraid, get out now. I hope you find what's right for you. X

[NevermindtheNargles]

You don't 'have to leave him' if that's not what you want love. If you think he's an arsehole and he makes you unnhappy, leave him. If he makes you happy generally, but occasionally flies off the handle, tell him he needs to do something about it or you will leave him. Just because he can control it sometimes doesn't necessarily mean anger management/counselling won't work. It's all about what you want. If you want to try and he's willing then give it a go. If you are miserable and afraid, get out now. I hope you find what's right for you. X

[CeliaFate]

Now you've said he throws stuff, calls you names and breaks your things then I agree with you - it is abusive behaviour. You feel frightened and that's no way to live. Good luck.

[nineteenninetyfour]

I think I'm going to have to leave him, aren't I? Shit. Didn't want it to be like this. I really didn't. But all that 'hot temper' stuff is bull- he can control himself, the lying b.
Thanks for all advice.

[HampstersDontSwim]

Yep.
Sounds like youve got his number.
What are you going to do?

[nineteenninetyfour]

If he reacted in the same way to my mum as he does me, it would give credence to his excuse of having 'uncontrollable temper'. Maybe he couldn't help himself and perhaps this would be treatable by anger management classes or something.

But, the fact that he can control himself shows that he is in control when he does and says the nasty things he does.
That tells me that he is really just an abusive pig.

[HampstersDontSwim]

Also would like to point out that abusive or not, if you feel unhappy and want to end your relationship, then you can!
You have every right to be happy and you do not need anyones permission.

[NevermindtheNargles]

Although as squeakytoy says, these things do happen in relationships. If it's once in a blue moon then it's quite normal. You're perfectly entitled to be pissed off, but one shouty throwy argument really doesn't constitute abuse.

[HampstersDontSwim]

It is not normal or right to shout abuse and scare your partner.

In the washing scenario I would probably ask wtf they had left the washing in - if their arms are too broken to empty the washer, then lifting it would be out of the question!!!

IME people who state that they have an 'uncontrollable' temper when 'pushed'/'wound up' are really saying that they feel entitled to behave any way they like and you have to put up and shut up.
Good news.
You dont.

YANBU

[NevermindtheNargles]

Op, if he is regularly throwing things at you and breaking your stuff, it's really not relevant whether he does it to other people or not. Would you feel better if he had hurled something at your mum? You don't deserve to be treated like that. If he can't control his temper he needs to do something about it, the fact that he has no control is not an excuse and doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

[squeakytoy]

Ok, well throwing things and breaking your stuff isnt on.

I would say though that most of us are generally a lot more controlled with others than we are with our spouses too.

I rarely lose my temper, but there have been times when my husband has tipped me over the edge, and I have yelled at him, thrown a hairbrush behind his retreating head, and called him names... equally he has yelled at me, broken a coffee table in temper, and called me names.. but we have been married for ten years, and our rows are few and far between. The rest of the time we are great, we just dont have a coffee table anymore... :)

If your husband is regularly going off on one, for no apparent reason, then there is a problem perhaps.

[nineteenninetyfour]

Sorry, squeakytoy, but I do think I am being clear in my first paragraph, I appreciate fully that he is going to be frank and open with me and not my mother, but he goes beyond what is reasonable by really shouting and calling me names. Going over the top is the phrase, I think.

Anyway, his temper is obviously not uncontrollable (as he has used by way of excuse when he has done other things-throwing things at wall where I'm sat, breaking my stuff) because if it were genuinely uncontrollable, well he would not be able to control it, would he?