In thinking people should have a certain amount of trust in the school

[Dancergirl]

Scenario 1: school organises a 2-night camping trip for Year 4 children at a well-established and long-running site. Cue to some parents to ask a million questions about safety, security, going to the toilet in the night, why the tents have 2 zips, one at the front one at the back (she told her dd to sleep in the middle of the tent away from possible predators), why don't the teachers sleep in the tents with them etc.

Scenario 2: school trip planned for Years 3/4 that involves a motoway journey on a coach. Cue for parents to question safety on the journey mainly about seat-belt use. School sends letter home to parents reassuring them about seat-belts.

Now am I missing something here? I assume that when my child goes on a school trip, all the necessary risk assessment have been done. I trust the school with my child therefore I trust the school to look after my child on a trip. It just wouldn't cross my mind to ask these questions.

Am I being naive or under-protective?

[Sylvaniasandwich]

My DD is in Y2 and - thank god - hasn't gone on any major school trips. I hate the fact that she is out of school even on small trips tbh, though I wouldn't stop her doing one.

My mum - ex-headteacher - is all 'it's fine, very safe' when it comes to school trips but she is also really cavalier about safety and often wrong about simple health issues (recommends putting butter on burns, put E45 on DD1's nappy rash, lets kids stand up in car and poke heads through sunroom when off-road etc etc). Like the poster whose mum was a deputy head, I am less than convinced about teachers' common sense!

I am really careful not to freak DD out with my anxiety but i would definitely be checking out the arrangements with the school. There have been quite a few coach trip accidents in which school children have been injured/died so I think asking about seatbelts is very reasonable.

[scaryteacher]

I used to teach in Cornwall Dancergirl, at a school where a girl was murdered on a school trip abroad; and I always question safety and access arrangements to buildings, even though ds is now 15; and that's after having taken kids away both in UK and abroad, so I know what school trips are like.

At ds's current school his Year 6 teacher rolled her eyes when I asked questions and queried why I was asking. When I pointed out that I was aware of what could happen on school trips (this child being murdered), and wanted to know if the hostel was single use, or at least keypad controlled access, she then had the grace to look ashamed and give me the info I wanted.

Yes, school trips are a great opportunity to have fun and learn, but they do come accompanied by certain risks, and I for one, am only too aware of them.I am glad that parents ask questions, as if we don't, who will?

[Dancergirl]

That's terrible valium....hopefully that school is in a minority.

Yes I understand that it's children's safety which is at stake and of course you want to be sensible. But I do think it's a shame that the FIRST thing some parents think of when faced with a school trip is the safety aspect. Not what a wonderful opportunity, they'll have fun etc but what could possibly go wrong.

And yet other risks we don't think twice about. Thousands of children are killed and injured in car accidents every day but we choose to drive our children without a second thought (other than a suitable car seat that is).

I just think you have to get things in perspective.

[valiumredhead]

Dancergirl it was mainly safety concerns such as letting a parent helper have 5 reception kids then not all walking together but giving the parent total responsibility - would've been fine somewhere quiet but this was more often than not getting on and off tubes in London. One of the dads went off to buy a paper and just left the kids in the middle of the station while he popped into WH Smith's - teacher nowhere to be seen as she was with her group of kids.

Taking kids to the park at midday on a day that was so blisteringly hot it was ridiculous, no access to water apart from kids taking their own small water bottles, lots of them had no hats and it was 36 degrees, park didn't have sufficient shade either!

It was more that as they couldn't get the basics right ( even in school) I certainly didn't trust that they would out of school. Ds had already had a head injury while in school that not one of the teachers had noticed( ds said he fell and then went into the play house to cry) - his bruise was so big it took over 2 weeks to go. Didn't instill any sort of confidence in them!

We moved ds to another school as we also moved house and his next school was lovely and I had great trust in them and never went on another school trip again!

[ScousyFogarty]

Yes, fair enough, but it is the parents child. OK?

[exoticfruits]

What to do in a coach crash features in a risk assessment. I would challenge anyone to find anything missing in one.

Many primary teachers are married with DCs of their own. I found that when I went to meetings they generally started 'we are all mums-we know how you feel'. Young teachers without experience will not be leading-they will go with the experienced and get lots of experience before they lead.You generally find that schools go to the same place year after year.

[IWantAnotherBaby]

My DS has just this morning left on his first residential trip (year 3, aged 7). I feel sick and know I will stay feeling like that until he returns tomorrow evening. He is as sensible as any 7 year old boy (so not very). His teachers are great, but I still worry. As a governor of the school I know the risk assessment has been thorough, and they take the year 3s to the same place every year without incident, but as a parent I am imagining coach crashes, him being left behind at the rest stop en route, waking afraid overnight and having no Mummy to climb into bed with...

I was not one of those with 300 questions for the teachers; I trusted them with the things I can't control, and just used common sense to do the best I could to prepare him; so everything he has taken is labelled (spent some time last night sewing labels into everything) and/or old/ getting a bit too small/ otherwise no great problem if it doesn't return. He knows to stay with his group etc...

But still I fret.

[gingeroots]

Afraid I agree that some young ,childless teachers are not really sympathetic .
Personally I don't think the staff have enough time to keep an eye on the kids .
DS came home from trip in year 6 with bare feet - another child had taken a fancy to his shoes .

In year 8 he came back from a sking trip ,sans coat ( fair enough ) and what I thought from seeing him on the coach ,was a face covered in chocolate .
But actually it was sores around his mouth and up half face .
Teachers shrugged and said " Oh he kept wiping the sun block off with his hand ."
( DS a chewer ,seems placid ,but face wiping ,nervous gestures ,his way of coping )
I wouldn't send them if you have concerns ,wish I hadn't .

[Dancergirl]

What sort of risks did they take valium?

[valiumredhead]

I question safety. At ds's old school I used to help out with the school trips. If I couldn't have gone ds wouldn't have been allowed to go, the risks the school took were shocking and quite frankly it was a miracle that no one was hurt (ds has since moved schools! )

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

I panic when I read risk assessments. All the things that could go wrong!

Leads to me feeling irresponsible when I take my own children out for the day and don't check our route in advance and fill out forms in triplicate....

[Sirzy]

Publishing risk assessments would panic some parents more. I do risk assessments and you do end up looking at even the tiny little things, things the parents probably hadn't even considered!

[Goblinchild]

Do you think publishing the risk assessment would make a difference, or would it panic parents when they realise we have thought of problems and solutions that hadn't occurred to them?
If you don't want to risk it, say no at the outset. No signed permission, no removal of child from school permitted.

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

whatever - he doesn't HAVE to go on the trip. They cannot kidnap your child and force him to do outdoor activities. They might make a big fuss if you say he's not going, but it is ultimately your choice.

Does he want to go?

[whatever17]

Hmm.

With DS1 I knew he would speak up for himself and get whatever he needed whilst on a trip.

With DS2 it is a different kettle of fish - I know he will suffer in silence.

DS2 is now in Year 6 and there is a "3 line whip" PGL trip that he HAS to go on. I am having kittens about him getting lost, drowned, being upset, getting bullied - everything. I don't trust the childless, young teachers a bit to comfort my kid in the wee hours.

[Onceamai]

Well I'm going against the grain here, MIL, was a deputy head at a primary school for 20 years. She has no common sense whatsoever to the extent she once took my children to the park and left the front door open; got out a box of sandwiches when I went to feed dd and ds, aged three and a half, was in a hospital bed on nil by mouth awaiting an anaesthetic, and after the fil had an accident and was told to keep his blood pressure monitored because it was sky high said they didn't need to make a doctor's appointment because the nurse would ring - he dropped dead four months later! Do I trust teachers to look after my nearest and dearest without a long tick list and lots and lots of questions - certainly Not - and apologies to all sensible teachers but I've seen how daft some of them are - to the extent that one of her daughters developed peritonitis because she thought she had eaten too many peaches.

[worraliberty]

Actually most of the questions asked were about leaving the light on at night (kids scared of the dark) and fussy eaters. One Mum asked if she could pack some pot noodles incase her daughter wouldn't eat the food.

[exoticfruits]

I don't question. This is probably because I am a teacher and I know what risk assessment will have been done!

Have people actually seen these forms?!
It will start with getting on the coach, what might the risk be? Tripping on the steps. How will they deal with it? Have an adult helping them on?
It will go on from there-there will not be a risk that hasn't been thought of!
I wonder why schools, cubs etc bother. I just thought it was a wonderful opportunity for mine-it is very stifling to not want them out of your sight with trained, responsible staff-they can cope!

[Hassled]

Scenario1 - yes, I'd have a few questions. Bear in mind I'm a Governor, have helped in school for years and bloody years, have done numerous school trips and have 4 kids - so no PFB issues. I'd still have some questions. I would still want to know what would happen if my 8 year old woke in the night needing a wee and missing Mum. Completely reasonable.

Scenario2 - no issues whatsoever.

[worraliberty]

My year 7 son went on a residential trip a couple of months ago. At the meeting, one of the parents asked if they would be doing water based activities..to which the teacher replied no. Then another parent asked the same question and got the same answer.

By the time someone else asked it, you could see he was pissed off so he said "Listen, none of the children will be touching water on this trip...well not unless they annoy the staff on the ferry!"

[piprabbit]

It does seem that the default setting for a significant minority of parents is to assume that the school are out to deliberately undermine, mistreat and damage the children.

[Bohica]

I agree with you Dancer The school will have done the long week trips & day trips many times over years & years & will have so many procedures in place they have probably thought of a few scenarios that us parents haven't!

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

Dancergirl - do you have an exam this week? Good luck with it if so - my students have theirs on Thursday. I am a biology teacher, as you may be able to guess.

[Dancergirl]

Love your username endo - I am doing AS Biology at the moment!

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

I don't question. This is probably because I am a teacher and I know what risk assessment will have been done!

Mine are year 1 and reception, so haven't been away overnight yet. They went on a day trip this week, the list of stuff they had to pack in their rucksacks would have covered many eventualities (raincoat and suncream - guess which one they needed?)