I don't want 3 yr old DS to go on a day trip to the zoo with school. AIBU, DH says yes.

[pombal]

DS1 3.5 yrs has the opportunity to go on a day trip to the zoo with school.
It will be his class (nursery) and the class above (reception), so about 22 children aged 3 - 5 years.
There will be 2 teachers and 2 assisstants going with them. The Zoo is an hours drive from school and they will leave at 9am and be back by 4pm.
We live abroad and it'll be hot.

I think he's just a bit too young for an all day outing in a big group like this, and we can take him to the Zoo another time.

DH is literally sulking that I won't let him go and has asked me to put it to the mumsnet jury.

AIBU to say no?

[pombal]

It's interesting to hear the views of other expat Mums. I have no experience of having children in the UK and haven't been back there for some time so I don't know if children here are better behaved, more mature etc.
I do know DS is better behaved at school than at home which I think is pretty typical.

Lillian - When you live abroad you do have to accept that they do things differently but I'm sure if I was in the UK there would be things I didn't like about nursery or school as well, that wouldn't mean I would just have to put up and shut up though surely?

Obviously the chances are it'll all go well and he'll return tired but excited,
I just wish there were a few more adults going.

Neither DH or I can go, I checked and I have to work that morning. If he goes to school he'll have to stay in with a different class, feeling really torn about it now, as I had just planned to keep him home and go on an outing or something.

[Portofino]

I love the Maternelle system here and often rave about it. Children learn to socialise, pay attention, manage the loo and school lunches and generally get used to being in school all day long before the actual "work" starts. Not to mention the wrap-round and free parts of it.

I was more worried about dd not starting Primaire til 6.5, but I think the difference is the whole class has levelled out and they are ready to learn. The amount they have covered in 2 terms astounds me!

[StarlightMcKenzie]

DS is in nursery and has asd, but I'd still let him go tbh. But then I am a bit precious about giving him as much opportunity to share experiences with his peers as possible to extend his social communication opportunities.

The teachers will find a way to keep the children engaged/happy on the bus there and back.

I'd be planning a day long spa trip for myself........

[Francagoestohollywood]

Duchesse, you can say the same about the Italian school system. Not creative at all etc. Thankfully we do have 3 yrs of free nursery school where children can be as creative as they like, learning some important social skills and establishing invaluable relationships, without the constant monitoring of parents

[duchesse]

Actually I think that many children learn valuable social skills in PS, Bonsoir. Many of them also become properly toilet-trained after only a few days instead of needing to be asked if they need the loo. I wouldn't say it's a waste.

For the sake of balance, where I think the French education system is worse than the UK is in creativity and lateral thinking and independence of thought, none of which are really encouraged. I still think that the UK still knocks the socks off France in these fields and they are actually as valuable as the knowledge itself in applying it.

[Francagoestohollywood]

Was it a waste of time for your dd Bonsoir or is it a waste of time in general?

I love Italian nursery schools, such a great way to give everyone the same opportunities from a young age, instead of waiting til they are 6 and go to primary school.

[duchesse]

I think that UK children are incredibly over-coddled. Even in Canada they let them do way more than here. Our children were out playing in the school playground at -25C and lower, no excuses. Those below grade 2 (age 6-7) were allowed to stay indoors at playtime if the temperature dipped below -30C because of the chance of frostbite if they had any exposed skin. Everyone else was covered up and out the door, even when it reached -40C for a couple of days.

[Bonsoir]

My DD is in a French sous-contrat school, LilianGish.

With the benefit of hindsight I now think most of Petite Section was a waste of time. Which goes a long way to explaining why many, many "private" sous-contrat schools have abandoned PS all together.

[LillianGish]

At last, some sense being talked by others living abroad (except Bonsoir, but if I remember rightly your dd is not in local school). You can't send your kids to schools abroad and then moan when they don't conform to all the rules and regs imposed in Britain. Duchesse - you are describing all the schools my dcs have been in since they were 2. There are some things I don't like, but I don't spend my whole time thinking how much better they do things in Britain. If that's your attitude put them in a British school.

[LadyWord]

YANBU, and I don't understand why nurseries/schools feel they have to arrange big, stressful trips like this for such little children. They get more out of going to places like this in a smaller family group, and that staff ratio sounds like a nightmare. Also, you know your own child and whether it's suitable for him - some 3yos might be OK, some not.

I used to avoid these trips too - I would keep DS off for the day and go on a day out ourselves, if I could.

[AnonymousBird]

I let my DD go on an identical trip when she was 3 and she absolutely loved it, still talks about it now.

HOWEVER, there are no where near enough adults on the trip, so on that basis alone YADNBU.

I went on a trip with DS (nearly 7) last week and we had 7 adults to 23 children and it was hard enough keeping track and our children are considerably older than nursery!

[Bonsoir]

Yes, he is too little at 3 for this.

My DD's school did an outing to the circus when they were 3 and 4. It was a disaster!

[SardineQueen]

Not read whole thread.

DD went on a trip to a zoo type place with nursery when she was nearly 3. It was an all day thing. She had a wonderful time and is very excited about going this year.

However many of the ones her age didn't go as their parents judged them not ready, and parents were also allowed to go if they wanted so quite a few had a parent with them.

Also the ratio of staff to children was much higher than you have + there were some parents there as well.

I think you need to do what you think is right for your child. Does he want to go? Is the main question. At that age he'll have a view as to whether he wants to do it or not. Then you have to judge whether you think he is ready. Then how you feel about it.

[FoxyRevenger]

I think it would be a real shame to keep him home. He would have a brilliant time on a day trip with all of his friends!

They are all little kids, I am sure they won't be on the go all day, they will stop for lunch, snack breaks, drinks, toilet stops...

And really, if he comes home completely knackered...it doesn't matter does it?

Just thinking of him in class the next day with everyone talking about how brilliant the zoo was. Quite sad really.

[Fleurdebleurgh]

Ive just had a letter home to say my child (4yrs) will be going on a school trip like your, its nursery and reception classes, and theyre out all day at a venue over an hour away.
Im not yet sure of the staff to children ratio- but when i enquired as to whether they needed parent helpers, was told that they dont take them without a CRB check.

Im a bit 'eek' about it all too tbh, BUT i will be letting him go despite my reservations.

[BadBagel]

YABU
Your DS will have a great time and will sleep well that night. Both of mine went on school trips about 1 hours drive away at that age, they had hot weather and wet weather, they survived :)

I am at cluttered "My DS went on a reception class trip to the zoo, I wasn't selected to be a parent-helper but went anyhow"

[Francagoestohollywood]

Yes, and I think that here the teachers routinely offer them breaks to eat/drink/go to the toilet during the outings.

[lesley33]

Although I do think that at 3, if children are provided with a bottle of water they should be perfectly capable of identifying when they are thirsty and having a drink - assuming they aren't SEN of course

[lesley33]

And I agree that you didn't get children running off. I don't know if that was because of better behaviour or just that the children knew the adults wouldn't necessarily notice and run after them.

[Francagoestohollywood]

YABU, this would be a totally routine day trip for their age here in Milan (though they don't go to zoos, favourite destinations here are usually farms with animals and the possibility of picking fruit or making biscuits with real flour!).

They won't come home dehydrated, perhaps over excited and tired. Believe it or not, children manage to survive in the Mediterranean weather.

[exoticfruits]

I love to see them out and about in countries like France. We are much too precious in this country IMO.

[stickytoffeepud]

why cant you go as a helper and your husband look after the other kid

although I have been a helper before on a zoo trip, and just took the little one as well

[lesley33]

I wouldn't have agreed with you Duchesses before I lived abroad. But the children did seem more grown up and responsible, even when very very young.

I remember before my children started at nursery being in a park where there were 3 teachers? and about 15 what looked like 3 to 4 year olds. The children were running all over the small park with minimal supervision. Some even went outside the park which none of the teachers noticed - I was keeping an eye on them!

When it was time to go the teachers shouted to the children that it was time to go, stood up and began making their way to the exit. There was no head count. I was flabbergasted, but I soon found out that this attitude was common. Children of this age were expected to have a basic level of common sense and generally did have.

[duchesse]

[Portofino]

They go in 2s holding hands usually. It is sweet to see. They are on strict instructions to always stay with their partner and with the group. I have never heard of any problems.