to think that the state shouldn't be expected to pay out for more than 2 kids per family on benefits?

[rockermom]

I don't know if anyone agrees with me but, do any of you believe that the state shouldn't be expected to pay money to any more than the 1st 2 children if a couple on long-term benefits decide to have 3+ children. Am I also right in thinking that kids are a responsibility rather than a right.

Obviously there are exceptions like families with 2+ kids where the parent(s) have been in F/T work and been made redundant, and, families whose parent(s) have had an accident and are disabled etc.

Do you think it's a fair question

[Megancleo]

I have 3dc and when ex left last year I was reliant on benefits for 6 monthes, if you had seen me in the street how would you have worked out if I'd Kept on having kids to avoid work etc. Who the hell would have looked after my 3dc when I did voluntary work, Rockerman? I truly don't understand how you can be so insensitive to others situations. Do you read the Daily Mail?

[lovechoc]

long term it is expensive having more than 2 children though - what if each one wants to go to uni?? new shoes all teh time too - it is bad enough paying out for two children, let alone more than this!
I agree with OP.YANBU.

[tethersend]

"ghjutyfdxasghuytrxe"

Well exactly.

[usualsuspect]

How many more...

[hairytriangle]

do you honestly believe there is a large number of people having more children simply to avoid work? YABU!!! and you are generalising.

foureleven there are some really, really stupid Department of Work and Pensions rules - the welfar reforms brought in by the last government started to make headway into a far more sensible method of encouraging people to take steps into becoming more employable, but the Condems have blown them out of the water...

[foureleven]

You cant do unpaid work like internships whilst claiming job seekers wtf is that all about..?

Internships can lead to permanent work so this rule is stopping people get work. It is true you can only owrk unpaid for a registered charity.

You also cant do odd bits of temping because your benefits are stopped and take ages to reapply for... Temping also leads to permanent work often so this is also a joke.

[FindingMyMojo]

OffYourRockerMom - YABU & nasty

[tethersend]

You already said that.

[rockermom]

I didn't imply that kids are taken off parents, I was merely saying that parents who haven't done a days work in their life and keep on having kids to avoid it, should be made to work for any extra benefits. For instance, for every x amount the parents get in CHB/CTC etc, for 3rd+ kids, they must do voluntary work for charities, say, like SureStart/HomeStart/charity shops etc, until the youngest is 7 and then they will be able to go into paid employment. As far as I'm aware, no company can ask you to work as an unpaid volunteer unless it's a registered charity.

[Triggles]

"I got sterilised so the state wouldn't have that extra burden to bear."

That's just about the most hilarious thing I've read in quite some time. Implying that is simply the only reason... what a good citizen.

Forcing people on benefits who have children to do voluntary work - like criminals???

God, don't people have better things to do with their time than think of shitty things to say about those on benefits while they're looking down their nose at them?

Use a little imagination and creativity. Come up with something else to discuss. This has been done to death....

[tethersend]

Who would meet the cost of childcare whilst the parents do voluntary work?

If the parent refuses to work? What then?

[rockermom]

I didn't imply that kids are taken off parents, I was merely saying that parents who haven't done a days work in their life and keep on having kids to avoid it, should be made to work for any extra benefits. For instance, for every x amount the parents get in CHB/CTC etc, for 3rd+ kids, they must do voluntary work for charities, say, like SureStart/HomeStart/charity shops etc, until the youngest is 7 and then they will be able to go into paid employment. As far as I'm aware, no company can ask you to work as an unpaid volunteer unless it's a registered charity.

[tethersend]

Maybe the long term unemployed could be given jobs as social workers, as they will need thousands more of them in order to take unlucky third and fourth children whose families cannot afford to care for them due to benefits being stopped into care (which costs more than benefits).

[rockermom]

In NI jobcentres are network connected with the social security offices. Most companies looking to recruit will ask the jobcentre to have the applicants fill out a jobcentre application form and leave it in.

If a long term claimant says they've applied for a job at the jobcentre, the dole office will check up on that every fortnight when the person claiming signs on.

Claimants also have to provide company names and numbers, if they have applied or called the company directly, so that this can be checked up on too. If anyone is caught lying, they're warned they risk having benefits either reduced or stopped.

Yes, it is a nanny state but over here there are very few people not looking for a job.
People on income support who have families will be taken off income support, put onto jobseekers and made to sign on every fortnight when their youngest turns 7yrs old. Most people on the dole with families are getting CTC and are changed to WTC if/when they find a job.

[foureleven]

drloves, the going out and about and asking is something that many more people should be doing. Its flaming hard out there at the moment, and that is the best way to get yourself noticed.

Cant wait to see fairyjobmother, hoping its on 4od...

[mumofthreesweeties]

YABU, there are naturally some people who are died hard scroungers and more should be done to force them back to work. However yesterday I watched 'Fairy jobmother' and was really moved by the young couple who had been on benefits for about four years and were desperate to get back to work but worried about not earning enough to pay their rent and other bills. I believe for some people on benefits educating them on interviewing skills and building their confidence will motivate them to work. From yesterdays viewpoint, the young couple wanted to work - so to merely write off all families on benefits from having more than two children is unworkable.

[drloves]

Good Idea four eleven, but you would have to scedual in some "scouting for work time" - jobcentres are great , but not all the availiable jobs are advertised there (most of them are i know)
Dh found his job because a friend told him one was coming up where he worked , so he went down to the place and asked (didnt have money for phone top -up) .
Dh struggled to find something and he is educated and had an outsanding employement record (had been with his old firm 15 years before he was made redundent).

[foureleven]

But yes, people on benefits should do community work. They are essentially employed by the public sector so they should have to do work for the money they get.

Unless there was some way in the future that jobs could be created out of community work so that people could be paid benefits as wages.. it would be below minimum wage so not sure how it would work..

early stages of an idea!

[foureleven]

rockermom, I half agree... but it would be impossible to monitor who had 3 children and could afford it, then lost their jobs.. It would become a case of another person deciding who was deserving and who wasnt. And thats not fair.

So it will never happen.

We just have to rely on human nature that most people will be sensible and stop at 2 if they cant fund any more. I think most people do this.

[drloves]

Yabu .
I have a family of 8 children. (well dd1 isnt a child anymore ).I did not plan to have 8 it just happened. DH and i both had 3 from our previous marrages , and then we had twins.
Unfortunatly for about 6 months just after the twins were born , we were both unemployed.It was not something we could have forseen and avoided.

Being on benefits for that time , shocked , embarissed me ,my DH and our children.
They got teased because they had school meals provided and the other kids knew that we were unemployed because of it.
It was damn hard to feed the kids (even the smart price stuff), and pay the bills on the money we were given...there was never any left at the end of the week and we often had to borrow from family to manage.

Thank heavens DH found a job when he did....we celebrated that day with buying chocolate biscuits ( things were that tight , we hadnt had chocolate biscuits for ages).

Being on benefits is not a lifestyle choice.No one in their right mind would choose to do that to their children...people have to because their is no other option.
It is quite honestly starve or claim benefits.

If there was no benefits system, or if it was restricted to 2 child families then you would find a lot of women resorting to prostitution to feed their kids.

[expatinscotland]

Another one of these.

Yawn.

[TitsalinaBumSquash]

maryqueenofyachts i hadnt thought of that! it is a very good point, maybe then they shold offer the longterm unemployed work like i mentioned before, gardening, community work ect for minimum wage with the rule that they are offered x amount of jobs and they ave to take one or the JSA stops?

[hairytriangle]

Pft. What a stupid stupid post op. Ridiculous!

[maryqueenofyachts]

But Titsalina, () if there is work for them to do, why shouldn't they be paid minimum wage for it? I do think volunteering is a great thing to gain experience, confidence and well-being, but how can the line be clearly drawn between volunteer roles and what might previously or otherwise be done by paid employees? I can see organisations making a lot of paid work "volunteer" only, to take advantage of this.

[TitsalinaBumSquash]

It is a stupid idea.

Although i agree some people take the piss with how many children they choose to have when both parents are on benifits... i know someone who springs to mind, they have 10 children, she is pregnant with another, they live in a 4 bed council house, they are both not working, neither is disabled.... they were complaining to me only today that the council wont build them a 6 bed house

Anyway yes i think something should be done about benifit scroungers, there is no incentive to work with benifits so easy to get.

I recall reading (and i know you will correct me if im wrong) in the Conservative campaign thing there was talk of a scheme when people who were on benifits would have to do community work to get them, i think it was JSA they were talking about, and i dont mean community service as in a horrible prison scentence work but things like working in homeless shelters, gardening, helping vunerable people in the communinty, the idea was these people would still be active and in a working enviroment and getting the money from thier JSA as well as getting work experience, social skills, networking ect. I thought it was a brilliant idea.