Just a quick question

[Babsexxx]

My friend currently has her children in foster care two older one under one, it’s looking like they are trying to get the baby adopted out?

Quick question is can they actually do this surely if they don’t think she’s capable of looking after two children think older than 7 younger than 11yo kids.

Then what possible argument could they have to only have the under 1yo adopted?

Thanks in advance.

[FunnyFinch]

of course they can do this

i suggest you keep well clear and allow social services to protect these children

[FunnyFinch]

Then what possible argument could they have to only have the under 1yo adopted?

what is to say that the older two won’t also be adopted. basically you know sweet fa about what’s really going on

[FunnyFinch]

i see from your posting history that social services have been heavily involved with your family too

[Babsexxx]

@FunnyFinch

i see from your posting history that social services have been heavily involved with your family too

No they haven’t! I have two asd non verbal children and I have no involvement after voluntarily carrying out a initial assessment which has helped me massively with my daughters head banging so you are far from accurate no SS involvement since so…. Wrong.

[Babsexxx]

I’m not disregarding SS decision etc I know these decisions aren’t taken lightly but I do find it v ODD that older children would be granted reunification? That’s all my question was!

[FunnyFinch]

@Babsexxx

No they haven’t! I have two asd non verbal children and I have no involvement after voluntarily carrying out a initial assessment which has helped me massively with my daughters head banging so you are far from accurate no SS involvement since so…. Wrong.

not according to your posting history

your ex husband and social services getting involved?

in any event, this is none of your business

let SS do their job

[FunnyFinch]

@Babsexxx

I’m not disregarding SS decision etc I know these decisions aren’t taken lightly but I do find it v ODD that older children would be granted reunification? That’s all my question was!

you find it ODD because you don’t know the detail or the plans for the future

[Babsexxx]

@FunnyFinch

not according to your posting history

your ex husband and social services getting involved?

in any event, this is none of your business

let SS do their job

My ex husband was over a decade ago and was a asshole I soon got out and have barely had any involvement with SS and there really wasn’t much involvement back then no further that a initial assessment so your talking out of your ring piece darling 🙃! Unless of course you can point me in the direction of my kids EVER being on ANY sort of child in need plan Etc! Never ever been concerns so there’s that!

[FunnyFinch]

just leave SW to it and don’t fan flames with your friend. Something catastrophic has gone on and these children will have seriously suffered.

They are now safe. Be happy for them

[Babsexxx]

@FunnyFinch

just leave SW to it and don’t fan flames with your friend. Something catastrophic has gone on and these children will have seriously suffered.

They are now safe. Be happy for them

Yeah I don’t doubt that! Obviously I’m fully aware that I’ve only been told half the story and I’m fully aware when parents lose there children it’s for very VALID reasons my question was a very genuine one as for me it absolutely wouldn’t make any sense for a reunification for the older children but not for the baby?!

Like I said probably isn’t being honest about the situation I just wondered if anyone even knew/heard of a situation like that before where some kids have ended up being returned and others not that’d be flipping ludicrous! IMO

Not once have I said I’ve got involved with her ss case? So I’m unsure what your referencing to there saying “leave ss to it?!” I haven’t rang them and asked about her case etc absolutely not so that’s a non starter.

[FunnyFinch]

 it absolutely wouldn’t make any sense for a reunification for the older children but not for the baby?! 

how do you know that the older children won’t be adopted?

it doesn’t make sense to you. You being someone who probably knows a fraction of what’s actually going on

[Torvy]

It seems like this is getting a bit heated and is based on speculation about a family that is clearly having current and active involvement with SS. With such limited information it is difficult to make any realistic, kind or appropriate comments, and I would encourage everyone to bear in mind that if we don't know what is happening from the original person, it's not fair to speculate.

However, OP, if you are wanting genuine possible reasons, there could be many reasons that a younger child might be placed for adoption whilst leaving older children in care.

It may be that there are better support networks for older children (family, school, mentors etc) that aren't there for the younger children, or that the older children have a father figure or family support that are able to act based safety factors. Maybe younger one has a different dad who has not been assessed as appropriate either, and whose family might not want to pursue guardianship.

Its possible that their mother has shown she has capacity and support to care for the older children but less so for the younger child. It's lso worth thinking that children don't get any younger, and without appropriate and sustained change, the younger child will have the same environment as the older ones, so it's not about a baby being easier to manage necessarily, it's about whether she is able to change whatever factors have led to them being in care quickly and sustained enough to mean she can care for the baby and prevent the same thing happening to them. This can be made trickier with older siblings in the mix, especially if the older siblings are drafted in to help care for the parent or other siblings. It can entrench unhealthy dynamics where a child is parentified.

In terms of keeping them together, it may be that the siblings have been placed apart (often the older siblings will be placed together and the younger one in a separate placement as 3 child foster placements can be hard to find) so it may be considered that separating the older ones would sever a deep sibling bond, whereas for the younger one of they have been in a separate placement for most of their life, it might be less of a strong tie than the older ones.

There is also the harsh truth that younger children are easier to adopt, so if she can only cope with a certain number of children, and that situation is not likely to improve in a meaningful timeframe, it is possibly more likely the younger one will be considered for adoption as it is more like to be a successful process. It would be unlikely (not impossible) that a child over 8 would be placed for adoption as the likelihood is they would be nearly 9 by the point of adoption. Children over 5 are considered harder to place.

All that being said, all of that is complete speculation, and I would caution that unless you are privy to all the information (e.g have been in the meetings etc), the best support you can give to your friend is getting her the support she needs to go through it. I can highly recommend the organisation Pause, which helps mothers who have had their children taken into state care, or getting her to speak to the social workers to get some counselling and family support.

I can assure you, adoption is the least favoured option for any child, and I would hope that you could use anything learned on the forum to give kind and supportive advice to anyone involved if they require it. Adoption is not thrown out lightly and I would caution that phrases like "adopted out" make it seem that you consider adoption more like a temporary care situation, rather than a permanent, devastating ending of the legal relationship between parent and child. I'm sure it was just clumsy phrasing, but I hope that you can see why it might be tricky on an adopters board for that wording to go unchallenged.

I say all of this as an adopter that desperately wishes her children's birth mother had some friends who were able to support her to access the help she needed in a genuine way. If there is a way for you to help this family get them help they need, please use any experiences or advice you have to get them to do it. Sometimes just knowing that someone else has a working knowledge of the social work system or can speak to people who do can make the difference between them being uncooperative and them engaging with those very services that are trying to support them.

[Babsexxx]

@Torvy

It seems like this is getting a bit heated and is based on speculation about a family that is clearly having current and active involvement with SS. With such limited information it is difficult to make any realistic, kind or appropriate comments, and I would encourage everyone to bear in mind that if we don't know what is happening from the original person, it's not fair to speculate.

However, OP, if you are wanting genuine possible reasons, there could be many reasons that a younger child might be placed for adoption whilst leaving older children in care.

It may be that there are better support networks for older children (family, school, mentors etc) that aren't there for the younger children, or that the older children have a father figure or family support that are able to act based safety factors. Maybe younger one has a different dad who has not been assessed as appropriate either, and whose family might not want to pursue guardianship.

Its possible that their mother has shown she has capacity and support to care for the older children but less so for the younger child. It's lso worth thinking that children don't get any younger, and without appropriate and sustained change, the younger child will have the same environment as the older ones, so it's not about a baby being easier to manage necessarily, it's about whether she is able to change whatever factors have led to them being in care quickly and sustained enough to mean she can care for the baby and prevent the same thing happening to them. This can be made trickier with older siblings in the mix, especially if the older siblings are drafted in to help care for the parent or other siblings. It can entrench unhealthy dynamics where a child is parentified.

In terms of keeping them together, it may be that the siblings have been placed apart (often the older siblings will be placed together and the younger one in a separate placement as 3 child foster placements can be hard to find) so it may be considered that separating the older ones would sever a deep sibling bond, whereas for the younger one of they have been in a separate placement for most of their life, it might be less of a strong tie than the older ones.

There is also the harsh truth that younger children are easier to adopt, so if she can only cope with a certain number of children, and that situation is not likely to improve in a meaningful timeframe, it is possibly more likely the younger one will be considered for adoption as it is more like to be a successful process. It would be unlikely (not impossible) that a child over 8 would be placed for adoption as the likelihood is they would be nearly 9 by the point of adoption. Children over 5 are considered harder to place.

All that being said, all of that is complete speculation, and I would caution that unless you are privy to all the information (e.g have been in the meetings etc), the best support you can give to your friend is getting her the support she needs to go through it. I can highly recommend the organisation Pause, which helps mothers who have had their children taken into state care, or getting her to speak to the social workers to get some counselling and family support.

I can assure you, adoption is the least favoured option for any child, and I would hope that you could use anything learned on the forum to give kind and supportive advice to anyone involved if they require it. Adoption is not thrown out lightly and I would caution that phrases like "adopted out" make it seem that you consider adoption more like a temporary care situation, rather than a permanent, devastating ending of the legal relationship between parent and child. I'm sure it was just clumsy phrasing, but I hope that you can see why it might be tricky on an adopters board for that wording to go unchallenged.

I say all of this as an adopter that desperately wishes her children's birth mother had some friends who were able to support her to access the help she needed in a genuine way. If there is a way for you to help this family get them help they need, please use any experiences or advice you have to get them to do it. Sometimes just knowing that someone else has a working knowledge of the social work system or can speak to people who do can make the difference between them being uncooperative and them engaging with those very services that are trying to support them.

Thank you finally a answer that makes sense yes I will agree I’m not familiar with the exact terminology! I apologies absolutely no offence intended! I really am sorry if that’s how it came across.

Im just trying to gage if my friends really telling me the truth as there must be really serious accusations to warrant adoption and I genuinley can’t wrap my head around the fact that if she’s allowed other youngish children back why not the baby?

Its thrown me through a loop because the feedback I’ve got was really positive and I can’t help but think wtf? Why would some children be returned but others not surely it should be safe guarding ALL the children or non I’m sorry but I’m quite black and white in this and I don’t understand the grey area!

Thanks for your response!

[Noimaginationforaun]

It sounds like a really complicated situation that you’re trying to support your friend through.

I have no idea of her current situation or if she is telling the truth, but I do know younger children can be adopted and their old siblings not. My friend adopted her son and he has older siblings that have stayed in the care system because they were deemed too old to adopt. The older siblings have ended up under a Special Guardianship.

As a PP said, it also has a lot to do with birth family set up. My son for instance is adopted but his birth mum went on to have another baby relatively quickly. That baby is with her and is under social service but not being removed because their birth dad is different.

It is very complicated. It is natural your friend won’t be telling you the whole truth. Maybe she is embarrassed, angry, doesn’t want you to judge her. I guess all you can do is support her how you are able and trust that SS have the children’s best interest at heart. I appreciate this must be extremely difficult from the birth family side.

[Torvy]

@Babsexxx

Thank you finally a answer that makes sense yes I will agree I’m not familiar with the exact terminology! I apologies absolutely no offence intended! I really am sorry if that’s how it came across.

Im just trying to gage if my friends really telling me the truth as there must be really serious accusations to warrant adoption and I genuinley can’t wrap my head around the fact that if she’s allowed other youngish children back why not the baby?

Its thrown me through a loop because the feedback I’ve got was really positive and I can’t help but think wtf? Why would some children be returned but others not surely it should be safe guarding ALL the children or non I’m sorry but I’m quite black and white in this and I don’t understand the grey area!

Thanks for your response!

No offence taken, I know things aren't always easy to phrase.

The thing is, safeguarding is contextual, and can depend a lot the relationships of all concerned. Its not even so much her capacity to care for a baby in and of itself, but the jump from 2 to 3 children of very different ages is a lot to handle, especially if the older two are displaying tricky behaviour or extra needs. If they have been in care for a while then she may not have a full idea of how tricky it might be to parent all 3 together, which social workers might be trying to explain to her, and she may not be able to truly accept. The whole family dynamic is what will need to be assessed, and each child's place within that has the ability to alter it or add additional stress or strain, and nobody wants reunification to fail, but all the children deserve permanence as soon as is practicable- they don't go into stasis, and social services will be trying to make sure all the children have the best outcome for them and the family as a whole.

I assume all the feedback is coming from your friend, so it will be biased because it has to be- she is trying to protect herself emotionally. I would just offer a listening ear, take what she says with a pinch of salt and let her know you are a listening ear for her when she wants to vent.

[Babsexxx]

@Torvy

No offence taken, I know things aren't always easy to phrase.

The thing is, safeguarding is contextual, and can depend a lot the relationships of all concerned. Its not even so much her capacity to care for a baby in and of itself, but the jump from 2 to 3 children of very different ages is a lot to handle, especially if the older two are displaying tricky behaviour or extra needs. If they have been in care for a while then she may not have a full idea of how tricky it might be to parent all 3 together, which social workers might be trying to explain to her, and she may not be able to truly accept. The whole family dynamic is what will need to be assessed, and each child's place within that has the ability to alter it or add additional stress or strain, and nobody wants reunification to fail, but all the children deserve permanence as soon as is practicable- they don't go into stasis, and social services will be trying to make sure all the children have the best outcome for them and the family as a whole.

I assume all the feedback is coming from your friend, so it will be biased because it has to be- she is trying to protect herself emotionally. I would just offer a listening ear, take what she says with a pinch of salt and let her know you are a listening ear for her when she wants to vent.

Yes absolutely her other children are disabled they went through 3 foster homes in a matter of weeks ones already in heavy therapy etc!

So that makes a lot of sense the recommendation is that they are in fact returned fwiw she’s not remotely personally abusive at all that wasn’t the concern it was her eldest son and the home life, I absolutely understand failure to safeguard!

I’m just really surprised that you can actually have some kids back but not others! For me it’s very much black and white if someone can’t cope with 1 child they can’t cope with ANY I know that sounds naive but I’m not sure…….

[Tomsthumbs]

@FunnyFinch

i see from your posting history that social services have been heavily involved with your family too

The person has come to this forum for advise, not criticism and judgement from your unhelpful response.
Please let the person be if you can not help them.