Anyone else's otherwise high achieving child having difficulty with English Language GCSE

[Echobelly]

15yo DC has GCSEs in May and just had rather concerning email from the school to say they had March mock exams marked by boards to check out standards and they seem to have fallen back in English language marks by some way (they say 'some students', 15yo says its everyone). DC has siad the outcome was people were 2-3 marks down on what they thought and that's serious because if that doesn't go up they could miss their 6th form choices as English Language is one of the things you need a decent mark on.

And it seems bizarre because DC is getting 8/9s in History and Psychology, which are essay subjects so clearly English language in general is not an issue for them. I'm wondering what the hell the exam boards want from them in English Language as I'd have thought that any reasonably intelligent, articulate child ought to do decently on it (DC predicted 7s-9s) without much help and guidance, but evidently it's changed since my day?

Obviously pretty upset at the school, which has generally been great otherwise, and is at least launching a lot of intervention for the next few weeks, but I don't understand how one can get teaching English language so wrong? Or is there something about the expectations in English language that is super difficult these days?

[AmaryllisChorus]

What board is it?
2-3 marks are easy to pick up in the next few weeks. School should identify where the marks are being dropped. Also contact school and double check if she is among those whose marks dropped in a way that would affect her grade.
Also, how is it being taught? Does she know the clear differences between, for example persuasive language, descriptive language, informative language etc Can she easily extract vital information? Can she summarise? Can she order material and create text to guidelines?

[ThanksItHasPockets]

I’m an English teacher and AQA examiner. Something doesn’t add up here.

The exam boards don’t offer mock marking services. These are provided by third-party organisations. I would want some assurance of the quality of the service used.

Secondly, 2-3 raw marks difference across the two papers is within tolerance for English language and not a cause for alarm. What exactly is the concern?

[ittakes2]

I did an English language gcse exam for fun two years ago so I could understand what my children were expected to do. I have an essay based undergrad degree so capable of doing it relatively easily.

writing an English language exam is not the same as history etc. for a start one is writing about facts and the other is analysing fictional work.

get hold of gcse English papers and gcse history papers and you will see what I mean.

but that said if your son learns to ensure he uses technical language in his analysis I am sure he will be fine and understands the marks scheme. There are also lots of videos on YouTube with really good tips.

I suspect the school has not properly taught students how to get max marks each question.

[JessS1990]

@Echobelly

15yo DC has GCSEs in May and just had rather concerning email from the school to say they had March mock exams marked by boards to check out standards and they seem to have fallen back in English language marks by some way (they say 'some students', 15yo says its everyone). DC has siad the outcome was people were 2-3 marks down on what they thought and that's serious because if that doesn't go up they could miss their 6th form choices as English Language is one of the things you need a decent mark on.

And it seems bizarre because DC is getting 8/9s in History and Psychology, which are essay subjects so clearly English language in general is not an issue for them. I'm wondering what the hell the exam boards want from them in English Language as I'd have thought that any reasonably intelligent, articulate child ought to do decently on it (DC predicted 7s-9s) without much help and guidance, but evidently it's changed since my day?

Obviously pretty upset at the school, which has generally been great otherwise, and is at least launching a lot of intervention for the next few weeks, but I don't understand how one can get teaching English language so wrong? Or is there something about the expectations in English language that is super difficult these days?

For reasons that are lost in history, there are far more top grades awarded in GCSE Maths than English. I don't remember off the top of my head how English compares to History or Psychology.
But https://analytics.ofqual.gov.uk/apps/GCSE/9to1/ will have the answer.

It is perfectly possible that achieving a grade 7 or higher in English is simply rarer than it is in other subjects.

[TodayForTomorrow]

2 or 3 marks on every question or across the paper? This does sound a bit odd to be honest.

To pass English Language you need to know exactly how to answer every question on the paper and be able to do this to the very tight timings. It is very boring and formulaic to teach to be honest with you.

I disagree with a PP that it's all about terminology. Using terminology is a supplementary criteria and most kids get by absolutely fine as long as they can use the basics (noun, verb, adjective, simile, metaphor, personification etc.)

[Echobelly]

I realise I meant 'grades' not 'marks', as in a Grade 7 is being marked down to 4 or 5.

It sounds like the school is addressing how to answer the questions to formula more as that's what's expected but I both DH and I agree it seems like a bullshit way to test English language (I'm a philosophy/literature grad, FWIW)- presumably Gove's fault and moneysaving by making papers easier to mark by ticklist and requiring less expertise.

[BeyondMyWits]

In 2018 Dd got 8/9 in everything except English language... she got a 5 in that one. Cheesed her off as she needed a 6 in it for some uni places (pharmacy). But then covid came along for A levels anyhow, and a lot of stuff changed.

[HereBeFuckery]

Eng Lang is two papers and they are both more about exam technique than ability. Your DD needs to be absolutely hot on what each question actually requires (off the top of my head, one says it's about summarising and comparing but it's actually inference that gets the top band marks, but don't quote me as I am not teaching KS4 this year, so I am rusty on the question by question technique).
It's a shit GCSE these days, and hard to excel. I'd be focusing loads on watching videos which talk you through the actual skills being tested for each question. Mr Bruff, I think, is pretty spot on.

Has she prepared scenarios/ideas for the fiction paper? Q5 in each paper is 40 marks and if she has a rough outline, with a plan of where to include things like analepsis/prolepsis and how to make it a cyclical structure, it will help. Depressing, but it's not an exam to just be 'good at English' and hope for the best. I struggle to write good model answers for some questions!
Which exam board is it?

[HereBeFuckery]

DC, sorry not DD.

[Echobelly]

Ugh to terminology.... I say this as an editor for 20+ years who has managed this career despite being of the generation that was taught minimal grammatical terms.

[ThanksItHasPockets]

I’ve read your update OP but I still think this is very strange.

Scaling by two to three GRADES means that the English team’s internal marking is off by 20-30 raw marks.

What is the exam board and what was the external company used for the review of marking?

[TodayForTomorrow]

@Echobelly it's not any easier to mark but it is very particular about how they need to write their answers. Most of the questions need you to assess whether the answer provides

L1 - simple comments
L2 - some attempt at explanation
L3 - clear, relevant explanation
L4 - perceptive, detailed.

Most students end up between L2 and L3 and it can be quite hard to verbalise what makes something 'An attempt' vs 'clear'. Even very bright students can write waffly answers that don't articulate their ideas in an unarguable way.

Combine this with very short timings and it's easy to mess up by spending too long on an 8 marker and not long enough on the 20 marker.

[ThanksItHasPockets]

What were outcomes like last year, and have there been major staffing changes since then?

[Echobelly]

Interesting question @ThanksItHasPockets . English staffing has been pretty steady as far as I know. Maths staff has been much more of an issue, but I should look at how they did last year.

[wonderstuff]

Watching with interest, dd16 is in y11, on track for 8 in maths and Spanish 7 in geography and sciences but 4/5 in English language, bizarrely her teacher seems completely unbothered (her SATs were good her FFT20 must be at least a 7).

[MrsHamlet]

@ThanksItHasPockets

I’m an English teacher and AQA examiner. Something doesn’t add up here.

The exam boards don’t offer mock marking services. These are provided by third-party organisations. I would want some assurance of the quality of the service used.

Secondly, 2-3 raw marks difference across the two papers is within tolerance for English language and not a cause for alarm. What exactly is the concern?

Edited

This. Exactly this.

It sounds like stress inducing bollocks.

[Echobelly]

OK, so not the board (sorry, typing all this between making dinner), the school email says 'We had taken the step to commission the English Language paper to be set and marked by external examiners, to enable a full diagnostic analysis of performance.' - DC expressed it as the board.

[MrsHamlet]

Set and marked?

Is it a real paper? Or a made up one? What grade boundaries are being used? Actual examiners or "examiners"?

[crumpet]

Get hold of some past papers and most importantly the marks scheme for those papers. You’ll see that there is a formula as to what they are looking for. Lots of info online and on youtube

[MrsHamlet]

I'm actually horrified that any school would induce panic at this point. I'm working really hard to keep my students calm and focussed - not scaring the shit out of them!

[ThanksItHasPockets]

I am sorry for my unrelenting scepticism but as @MrsHamlet has wisely said it’s essential you don’t panic, or let your DC panic.

External mock marking is entirely unregulated and has no affiliation with the exam boards. Literally anyone can set themselves up as a ‘marker’. It is also EXPENSIVE - one of the schools in my trust has recently had to use such a service out of desperation due to multiple unavoidable LT absences in the English team. No school would spend money they can ill afford on such a service unless they had a reason to doubt the internal marking. English language is a discrete qualification but it does not sit in silo. If the team have assessed Eng lang inaccurately then Lit needs looking at too.

In your position I would want to get hold of that paper (photocopy if necessary) and see it for myself.

[MrsHamlet]

@ThanksItHasPockets had reason for unrelenting scepticism. I share it!

Actual examiners are forbidden by their contracts to advertise themselves as such. I have a former colleague who I know does it, and I wouldn't like to base decisions on the accuracy of their marking.

[Station11]

I suspect another state school with shite teachers! did they even bother to say which section of the paper they fell down on?
Mr Bruff is very good (on you tube)
also remember they need to tick off certain devices smilies, metaphors etc.. the photographic description is easier to get marks on if they’re not good at creative writing.
you can google which they need to do.

DS was predicted a 5 in his mocks, got an 8 with a bit of help from me and Mr Bruff. We also downloaded a few past papers which I marked.

[Echobelly]

They're getting a lot of past papers and some sample answers in the next few weeks. I'd like to look at them to see if I can identify what the difficulty might be for DC.

The school is usually pretty good and has results well above national average, so this is not like them. I might have expected problems with maths given the difficulties of staffing there but English seems surprising.

[lilsupersparks]

A lot of comments here are not relevant if you don’t know the exam board. There is no describe a photo question in our exam nor a question on structure - both of which I think are in the AQA syllabus.

Which exam board is your child studying?

I have seen that GCSE Bitesize has specific sections for different exam boards.

Definitely download past papers and give them a go - papers and mark schemes readily available online