Downton Abbey musings

[gabsdot45]

I've been sick this week and have used to time to binge re-watch Downton Abbey. It's soooo good, I love it,
Anyway. It occured to me. With all the fuss about Matthew becoming the Heir etc. In an alternative universe, When Lord Grantham has a grandson , (whichever daughter is his mother) wouldn't that child become the heir and out rank Matthew.

I know in the end Matthew and Mary produced the first grandson but if Sybil and Tom's daughter had been a boy would that child have become the Heir????
Thoughts anyone

[Becles]

I'm not a Carson fan. He was so shitty to Ethel when she got knocked up and then when Barrow was struggling to find a job in the final series. Totally contradicted what Thomas had said episodes earlier about Carson being a fair man. He seemed to save his humanity and understanding for above stairs and of course,' the blessed lady Mary's.

[Maireas]

The Turkish ambassador sex heart attack incident is based on real events.

[Kanaloa]

Yeah that’s sort of what I was saying. That I agree that Tom and Sybil probably wasn’t very realistic but in the context of the programme and its more updated world views it’s probably not that out there. If they knowingly hire gay staff, allow Black musicians and hide ambassador sex heart attacks is it that outlandish that they’d let the driver marry into the family?

It wasn’t a criticism just saying in the context of the show it’s not that odd!

[Andante57]

I often find myself wondering how true to the time they’re being - things like homosexuality, race, and class are often treated far more gently than I think they would have been in real life at that time

Yes, but if the contemporary attitudes were shown as they really were then the Granthams would’ve been regarded today as super-villains and whatever good things they may have done would have been completely overruled by their homophobic and racist attitudes.

I would be interested to know what we accept today which will be considered cancellable in 100 years.

[Maireas]

Why did Mary not end up with pig rescue man? They seemed better suited than her and racing man.

[SomethingNastyInTheBallPool]

I’m so glad I’m not alone in the Bates horror. He’s a total creep and looked smelly.

[Toddlerteaplease]

Marigold must have massive attachment issues. Removed from the original Swiss adoptive parents. Placed with the Drews's. Taken away from the Drew's, then taken away from the nursery at Downton, to go to Brancaster. Edited treated them appallingly and should have told them the truth.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

[quote JaneJeffer]@Kanaloa I watched a programme about the royal servants recently and they said that there was lots of gay men in service as it was seen as a safe space. They also reckoned the Queen mother employed gay men because she felt they were safer around the princesses.[/quote]
Interesting. I expect it was also a way to avoid constant questions about why they weren't married, as they'd probably have had to leave the job if they did marry (Carson and Bates being totally ludicrious notable exceptions).

This might scratch an itch for all of those who've rewatched the whole thing and still want more.

Part 1
Part 2

[JaneJeffer]

@Kanaloa I watched a programme about the royal servants recently and they said that there was lots of gay men in service as it was seen as a safe space. They also reckoned the Queen mother employed gay men because she felt they were safer around the princesses.

[Dumbledoresgirl]

I bloody love Bates, so there! Everyone on Mumsnet hates him so I feel the need to redress the balance a little. Actually, I love the actor who plays him, Brendan Coyle. I saw him in a play once. He wasn't the lead, just a supporting role, but i couldn't take my eyes of him and I swear he noticed and winked and smiled at me during the curtain call. I mean, I'm perfectly aware he probably had a friend or family member sitting behind me, but it felt like he smiled and winked at me.

Re Downton, the bit I disliked was Carson being all picky and demanding to Mrs Hughes once they were married. It is probably representative of how married men were towards their wives then, but it spoilt the lovely supportive relationship they had up until then.

[Kanaloa]

Did anything actually happen with the pretend Patrick? I remember Mary telling Edith he was tricking her but then it sort of just fizzled?

Agree that Tom and Sybil never would have really happened but they do seem to be incredibly liberal and forward thinking for people of that time. I often find myself wondering how true to the time they’re being - things like homosexuality, race, and class are often treated far more gently than I think they would have been in real life at that time.

[Andante57]

@TatianaBis

Quite apart from the above, Tom would not have been allowed above stairs even once they were married, and Sybil would have been socially excommunicated.

This.
I don’t think the marriage would’ve taken place. Tom would’ve been sacked and Sybil would’ve been sent to nurse on the Western Front or some such.
It was at this point I stopped watching as it was so implausible.

[Maireas]

@Wizzbangfizz

That whole bizarre plot line with the soldier pretending to be Patrick was batshit.

That just came to nothing, which was a disappointment.

[Maireas]

@Sundancerintherain

My favourite relationship was Mr Mosely and the 2nd Ladies Maid ( cant remember her name). It was such a sweet friendship, could become more.

Baxter! That was lovely. She'd had a difficult time, but he was so kind and thoughtful, and she encouraged him to become a teacher.

[JaneJeffer]

@Wizzbangfizz

That whole bizarre plot line with the soldier pretending to be Patrick was batshit.

He gave me the creeps.

[Wizzbangfizz]

That whole bizarre plot line with the soldier pretending to be Patrick was batshit.

[Glentheredbeakbattleostrich]

Baxter. I loved her, she was so lovely.

[JaneJeffer]

It’s absolutely rubbish, but BRILLIANT rubbish.
The perfect review

[Sundancerintherain]

My favourite relationship was Mr Mosely and the 2nd Ladies Maid ( cant remember her name). It was such a sweet friendship, could become more.

[SheikhMaraca]

@CiaoForDiNiaoSaur

The bit I didn't understand (although it's it's a while since I watched it) is how Matthew inherited even though Lord Grantham outlived him?

Matthew inherited from Lavinia’s father, and invested the money in the estate, and hence took a large stake in the estate (maybe even all of it?)

[forressttheouut]

according to google the dowager was born in 1842, I guess in those days it wouldn't have been unusual for her to have been married to the old lord by 18

[thebabessavedme]

I am rewatching it at the moment, what I just can't seem to work out is exactly how old the Dowager Duchess is? At one point she spoke about something her and the dead Lord did in 1860, by this point It was about 1925, so she must be knocking on a bit!

[JustJustWhy]

@rookiemere

I rewatched it all recently. Thought it all excellent apart from the miserable Bates ( what on earth is Anna meant to see in him) and everyone falling madly in love with frosty and mean Mary.

I think the men loved and chased Mary because she was the antithesis of women who were "coming out" at the time. They all came across as desperate airheads, hungrily taking part in the "pick me" dance before the gentry and trying to claim the biggest prized seat. Mary stood back, aloof and made them fight for her.

[Vanessashanessajenkins2]

By the end, Edith was my favourite character. I feel she developed so much and ended up outranking them all which was fantastic. From her bitchy side in the first few seasons and her dowdy frocks she suddenly transformed when Gregson came onto the scene into a beauty with fantastic fashion taste. The only downside was the way she treated the poor farmers family who actually helped her and loved Marigold.

Violet's character just made the show. Her friendship/rivalry with isobel is just a joy to watch and how they become friends and companions at the end was so beautiful. (I did spend a lot of time crying happy tears when I rewatched recently).

I always think Lavinia's character is overlooked too. She literally saved Downton Abbey not once but twice. First by dying so Matthew didn't feel obliged to marry her and he ended up marrying Mary instead and having a son. Secondly by her father's death and the money that should have gone to her now going to Matthew (even though he was option 3 in the list of potential heirs). This saved downton from Robert's poor management. I wish she got a bit more credit for that, poor girl. I did find it odd how she was buried in Downton though - why wasn't she buried where she lived.

As for the servants, I never understood Mr Bates either but I loved Anna's character and so glad she got her happy ending. Loved Mrs Patmore too, she is fantastic. I prefer Barrow's arc from evil to misunderstood. I think his character arc was one of the best developed and it showed him as one of the most complex characters on the show.

[rookiemere]

I rewatched it all recently. Thought it all excellent apart from the miserable Bates ( what on earth is Anna meant to see in him) and everyone falling madly in love with frosty and mean Mary.