What do you think makes people vulnerable to conspiracy theories and how can they break free?

[Kendodd]

I don't think they can be dismissed as just stupid, they're not, some are very intelligent and well educated. What makes the susceptible to this nonsense though? Do you know anyone who believed the bullshit and then saw it for what it was? Realised the earth is not flat etc. How did that happen?

[SilverBirchWithout]

It’s interesting that so many conspiracy theorists like to believe they are individuals and free-thinkers whilst many are actually being manipulated by others for their own personal gain.
Here I’m thinking about Trump and his political base.

[dividedwefall]

@SilverBirchWithout

It’s interesting that so many conspiracy theorists like to believe they are individuals and free-thinkers whilst many are actually being manipulated by others for their own personal gain.
Here I’m thinking about Trump and his political base.

Not just conspiracy theorists. This applies to everyone, including anti-Trump, pro-Remain types who feel themselves to be intellectually superior and 'right-on' but don't look that way to those with opposing views.

[rosetylersbiggun]

I've noticed there's been a huge increase in posters pushing conspiracy theories, specifically CTs based on far right wing ideology lately. There are at least three posters who have recommended Q-Anon blogs and/or used specific phrasing indicating support for Q-Anon.

I've said this before but Q-Anon is not just some old conspiracy theory like "the moon landings were staged", Q-Anon is incredibly dangerous, an attempt to undermine and violently overthrow democracy, and a cult intent on actively recruiting people.

I've seen about six different conspiracy theory threads on Mumsnet over the past couple of weeks, and almost every one is quickly taken over by posters screaming angrily that we're all stupid sheeple who blindly worship the government and believe the Daily Mail only prints the gospel truth, how dare you call us conspiracy theorists simply for "asking questions", here's evidence that conspiracies have happened in the past, how you do define something as a conspiracy theory in the first place.


The attempt to redefine their agenda-pushing as "just asking questions" or "just questioning the government" is a tactic I find particularly sinister. I can think of two examples in the past where a poster has posted a link/support of a conspiracy theory that holds that Hilary Clinton and all the left wing world leaders are cannibalistic paedophiles who eat children's' brains in order to consume a hormone produced above the kidneys, that there's a vast Jewish conspiracy to implement the New World Order, and that Trump is the real secret president and Biden's inauguration was faked. Then when other posters accused them of pushing dangerous and racist conspiracy theories they turn around and go "OMG how dare you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist just because I ask questions and don't trust Boris Johnson!!" When that is... very much not what the were pushing.


No one is being called a conspiracy theorist because they "just ask questions" or "don't trust Boris."

[SilverBirchWithout]

@dividedwefall

That's mad. Mumsnet and other platforms where overwhelmingly pro-remain. This lie that people were deceived into voting to leave the EU due to Russian bots is ridiculous now, four years after the event. Project fear had its tentacles everywhere and if it wasn't for the big money behind the remain campaign the leave vote would have been significantly higher.

I really don’t want to get into an argument about Brexit here.

But it is an interesting topic when discussing conspiracy theories. By its very nature it was a very polarise issue - YES or NO.

And it focused on quite two nebulous emotions:

• Take back Control
  
• Better together in Europe
  

The arguments for or against were just used to reinforce the emotional instincts on either side. There was no real debate as such, no shades of grey, it was/is a very complex issue and as such it was easy for people to spread rumour, disinformation, and downright lies to feed into people’s hopes, fears, and base instincts.

[MiddletownDreams]

Whilst I agree about many points by PPs, I think it boils down to the fact that many people, like Mulder, simply want to believe. A good dose of confirmation bias can be added too, like, for example, someone who hates the royal family would be likely to want to believe that they ordered Princess Diana to be killed.

I don't really believe in any conspiracy theories myself, I think they're 99.9% bollocks.

[Gingernaut]

Does nobody do maths?

Average life expectancy does NOT mean everybody dies at the same age.

There are people who live to 100 and tiny infants who die at a few days old.

It's been proven that Covid-19 is especially dangerous for the elderly - of course, those who are most likley to die are going to be older.

[SilverBirchWithout]

not just conspiracy theorists. This applies to everyone, including anti-Trump, pro-Remain types who feel themselves to be intellectually superior and 'right-on' but don't look that way to those with opposing views.

Yes I accept that is true. However there is also an anti-intellectual, anti-science development in people’s response to world events - caused in part by elitism and people feeling disempowered, but I also believe this has been helpful to further some groups’ agendas.

[LunaHeather]

Silver "However there is also an anti-intellectual, anti-science development in people’s response to world events"

So there is one? I thought it was just me! 😂

[Kendodd]

"don't trust Boris."
I don't trust Johnson though, he lies none stop.
I do trust experts though. If the vast majority of experts are on one side of a debate, be it climate change, vaccines, Brexit, whatever, well, wtf do I know about that stuff? I'll just go with what they say. I think also the 'research' conspiracy believers do is such a load of bollocks, why don't they realise they're not actually qualified or knowledgeable enough? I do cringe for people sometimes when they think they know better then the IMF, the WHO, governor of the BofE etc.

[LunaHeather]

Ken "If the vast majority of experts are on one side of a debate, be it climate change, vaccines, Brexit, whatever, well, wtf do I know about that stuff? I'll just go with what they say."

Is that a joke/sarcasm?

[dividedwefall]

@Kendodd That's all well and good but then you are only hearing one side of anything. Censorship can, does and IS happening all the time, particularly in science. Whenever a contentious topic has 100% consensus among the experts it is worth checking for alternative views just in case.

[lockdownconfused]

Weed? Seriously the majority of people that I have met who subscribe to these theories are cannabis users.

[startrek90]

My friend has fallen in with the whole q anon thing. She is well educated and has never taken drugs but I do think she has been very lonely for a very long time. She has been in lock down since last March, she lives alone and has spent to much time on the Internet and as Fallen down this rabbit hole. Its so upsetting and I have no idea how to get my wonderful friend back. I am keeping the lines of communication open, but she has become so aggressive. I know part of it is fear for my children (her beloved godchildren) and that she thinks I am reluctant to protect them from what she considers a real threat. I don't want to cut her off and isolate her more but I have no idea how to handle this at all....

[startrek90]

For the previous poster who said they have been sucked into Qanon threads on mumsnet, have you reported them? Can they be taken down? Qanon is a dangerous movement with links to white supremacy and domestic terrorism surely @mumsnet doesn't want to be associated and spreading that sort of thing?

[LunaHeather]

@startrek90

My friend has fallen in with the whole q anon thing. She is well educated and has never taken drugs but I do think she has been very lonely for a very long time. She has been in lock down since last March, she lives alone and has spent to much time on the Internet and as Fallen down this rabbit hole. Its so upsetting and I have no idea how to get my wonderful friend back. I am keeping the lines of communication open, but she has become so aggressive. I know part of it is fear for my children (her beloved godchildren) and that she thinks I am reluctant to protect them from what she considers a real threat. I don't want to cut her off and isolate her more but I have no idea how to handle this at all....

Sorry, protect them from what?

I thought people who believed in QAnon thought it was a very particular group of people who were supplied by farmers.

I can't believe I just typed that.

[PleaseStopExplaining]

I wonder if it’s got to do with a lack of stimulation? A friend of mine was always one for posting the odd scam on FB, never thought about them or took the time to check. Since she gave up work to care for an elderly relative it’s so much worse, proper conspiracy theories and more often.

[LunaHeather]

@PleaseStopExplaining

I wonder if it’s got to do with a lack of stimulation? A friend of mine was always one for posting the odd scam on FB, never thought about them or took the time to check. Since she gave up work to care for an elderly relative it’s so much worse, proper conspiracy theories and more often.

I can imagine care sending someone into utter insanity, to be fair.

[FTMF30]

@dividedwefall

Take innocent old philanthropist Bill Gates as an example.

His foundation is involved in Event 201, ID2020 and GAVI, and he is now the leading world spokesperson on not just COVID but the future pandemic he has predicted on live TV too.

Now all of this could be coincidence and totally benign, or it could all be linked and nefarious. Most Mumsnetters will just think he is a nice old billionaire trying to save the world one vaccine at a time. Others are asking why is he involved in all of these things that precede but are directly connected to an unexpected pandemic that needs the whole world to be vaccinated, locked in their homes and, as we now see, be issued with a vaccine passport to be able to travel (pending confirmation).

Those who trust in authority will take it all at face value. Those more cynical and mistrusting will think something terrible is happening behind the scenes. There is plenty of evidence to support both view points, but those on each side will deny the other is sane, rational and correct.

Agree.

I'm wary of Bill Gates, especially his deep interest in those in Africa, considering the fact Africa is a naturally resource-rich content and him coming from a family of eugenisists. If I express even slight wariness of him, I'm labelled a conspiracist. I don't believe the earth is flat or that 5G is causing covid, but I also don't just believe everything that is fed to me, just because it's supposedly from a reliable source.

People are throwing the conspiracist label around too quickly lately. If you don't agree with someone's opinion, it's the easy way to shut them down and dismiss them.

[Kendodd]

@LunaHeather
No serious.
Climate change for example, how am I even qualified to do my own research on that? The vast majority of climate scientists are on one side of the debate, the few on the other side of the debate often seem to be connected to oil companies. I think it's also important not to mistake politicians for experts Nigel Lawson is no better qualified to speak about climate change than I am and yet has such confidence in his own (in)ability he talks with authority on it and for some reason people listen.

I heard a programme on Radio 4 once about what we know and what we think we know. They spoke to and tested a range of experts, in all different subjects, and the public about how much they know and how much they think they know. The experts all underestimated their knowledge on their subject, and knew more than they thought when tested. The experts also all overestimated how much the public knew about their subject and the public were found to know less than the experts thought. The public on the other hand all underestimated how much the experts knew and overestimated their own knowledge about whatever the subject was. That programme really made sense to me and I see overconfidence in our own knowledge about stuff we really know very little about all the time.

[tofuschnitzel]

Just going by the two family members I have that believe in conspiracy theories, it's not because they are cynical or questioning people, quite the opposite. They are both in their sixties, and neither are educated beyond secondary school level. They egg each other on and because they lack the critical thinking skills to assess information, they don't question the conspiracy theories, they wholly embrace them. I wish I knew of a way to help them, because the nonsense they spout as truth is frankly frightening and reckless.

[startrek90]

@lunaheather

No Qanon is the conspiracy theory that trump is a secret saviour sent to destroy left wind politicians and Jewish billionaires who are part of a cannabalistic devil worshipping pedophile ring that sacrifice children and drink their blood. Pizza Gate and Mayfair are all part of it.

My friend believes it. She genuinely believes that there a people in the government who want to sacrifice my children to the devil and drink their blood. Its utterly barmy.

Its a 21st century take of the anti semitic blood libel thing. Throw in right wing anti democracy rhetoric and White supremacy and you have a dangerous mix. People has shot up shos, blown up ferries and tried to over throw government based on this stuff. They don't see themselves as terrorists, they genuinely believe they are trying to save children from sex trafficking. There was a march in London I believe protesting lock down and had all this Q stuff...

[Kendodd]

That's all well and good but then you are only hearing one side of anything

No I'm not. It doesn't stop me listening and being interested in both sides of an argument. Brexit for example, I can be a bit nerdy about these things, plus I was interested. I read for hundreds of hours on it, hours every night. I followed both Leave and Remain on SM and read articles linked, treaties, etc. At the end of it I hadn't even scratched the surface on the amount of knowledge needed to make a properly informed decision. In the end I just looked at which side the majority of experts were on.
I could read for hours and hours and hours about vaccination (for example) and even being extremely careful where I was getting my information from and trying my best not to just read stuff that confirmed my own bias, I would not for a minute think I could hold my own against an expert who actually did know what they were on about.

[LunaHeather]

Ken
I am so surprised at your approach

What do you think when experts disagree, as they frequently do?

I will avoid using current examples and say..

In previous times, doctors advised smoking to combat stress
When I was born in the 70s, experts were concerned that new ice age was coming

Extensive debate went on about Britain joining the Euro
Debates still go on about printing money

Eggs have been considered a problem for high cholesterol but now not
Low fat was the way to lose weight but now not

How can you just "follow" the experts? Which ones?

I understand if people stand back and say "I don't have the knowledge"

But you seem to be saying "I don't have the knowledge so will assume the majority of views that are available to me are correct".

[LunaHeather]

[quote startrek90]@lunaheather

No Qanon is the conspiracy theory that trump is a secret saviour sent to destroy left wind politicians and Jewish billionaires who are part of a cannabalistic devil worshipping pedophile ring that sacrifice children and drink their blood. Pizza Gate and Mayfair are all part of it.

My friend believes it. She genuinely believes that there a people in the government who want to sacrifice my children to the devil and drink their blood. Its utterly barmy.

Its a 21st century take of the anti semitic blood libel thing. Throw in right wing anti democracy rhetoric and White supremacy and you have a dangerous mix. People has shot up shos, blown up ferries and tried to over throw government based on this stuff. They don't see themselves as terrorists, they genuinely believe they are trying to save children from sex trafficking. There was a march in London I believe protesting lock down and had all this Q stuff...[/quote]
My question was, what does your friend think you should be protecting your children from? Does she think they'll be kidnapped for all that?

[Kendodd]

They don't see themselves as terrorists, they genuinely believe they are trying to save children

I'm sure ISIS believe exactly the same, I'm sure they think they are saving the world and glorying God by cleaning out unbelievers.