Important interview (April 2019) with Dr. Alexander Korte, a German Child & Adolescent Psychiatrist.

[LangCleg]

(Via 4th Wave Now)

Important interview (April 2019) with Dr. Alexander Korte, a German Child & Adolescent Psychiatrist. In it, he describes recent changes in the population of patients presenting with gender dysphoria.

This is clearly a worldwide phenomenon.

The interview is subtitled in English - hooray! He speaks about the reality of ROGD, especially in girls and articulates concerns about the possible transing of baby gays and lesbians, and also thinks that clinicians should probably stop prescribing puberty blockers as they "set" an eventual transition.

I'm also glad to see him suggest that some of this is the result of living in an advanced, neoliberal capitalist economy - leading to the commodification of self. Finally, someone says this out loud!

Interview:

www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o1pgf

4th Wave thread:

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1195356504439828480v

[LangCleg]

Morning Frack! Looking forward to your debunking of this senior clinician?

[DuchessDumbarton]

Lang that is very valuable.
I wanted to quote whole sentences from it- such a logical and compassionate man.

I wonder if there is a transcript somewhere?

[MuthaFunka61]

If a transcript is available I'd like to read it, the interpretation text is too small for me to be able to read it.

[DuchessDumbarton]

First two minutes transcribed below:

"For some years now, we have been monitoring/observing a significant increase, in fact a disturbing, explosive surge, in patients’ referrals.
This has increased significantly in the last 10years, with a significant acceleration within the last 5 years, I would say.
And we see a change in the sex ration. i.e.: how many biological girls in relation to biological boys approach the clinic.
Regarding this we see a marked increase in the number of biological girls, especially teenagers, in early or mid-adolescence.
What are the reasons for that?
One important reason, I think, could be that puberty requires much greater integration and adaptation skills of biological girls that it does of boys.
In this sense, we may possibly draw a parallel to eating disorders.
For anorexia, we assume a similar cause, namely that female adolescents are overwhelmed with the integration of sexuality at this age. Some fail to rise to this challenge in puberty.
In particular they are overwhelmed with the underlying beauty and body image ideals, which they perceive as a powerful stressor and which put a lot of pressure on them. "

[TobyandLottiesmum]

Saw this earlier. A great video from an informed medic.

[LangCleg]

Sorry, I stuck a 'v' on the end of the 4th Wave link. It should be:

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1195356504439828480

[DuchessDumbarton]

Transcript up to 3m36s:

When does transsexual development manifest itself?
An actual transsexual development can usually be seen very early. On those cases, we are told by the parents or by the patients themselves: It has always been like this, as early as I can think back. In kindergarten already, I felt somehow different, I was interested in things that were rather unusual for my biological sex in terms of social gender roles or stereotypes.
Well, and then there is also a relatively new phenomenon, which I find worrying: more and more young people suddenly come to the fore with this idea, without having a history of a sexual dysphoria during childhood. This is worrying because I have reasonable doubts as to whether this is really an actual transsexual development.
I would rather make the assumption that there are very different individual causes and reasons behind this.
So, my worry is, that many young people hope, that gender-affirming treatments will solve all their problems- and that this hope is actually an illusion and cannot be fulfilled.

[fascinated]

I was wondering whether anyone in Germany would speak out about this. IME they are often a bit more likely to not pussyfoot around issues, compared to the oh so polite British ....

[DuchessDumbarton]

More transcript
Many doctors treat those adolescents with puberty blockers. How do you feel about this?
In the debate about the use of puberty blocking drugs, I have personally taken a clear stance. I am critical of this treatment, I think it needs to be reconsidered.
The problem is that the proportion of children taking puberty suppressing rugs, who later decide to take cross sex hormones as a further step, the proportion of those children is close to 100%. This is documented in the available studies and it is also what the centers giving such treatments in substantial numbers report. The conclusion that I draw from this is that with the decision to give puberty clockers, intentionally or unintentionally, the decision to take testosterone or estrogen in a second step is already made.
This means that I am already setting the course, at this very early stage. Although in my opinion, at this very early age, the diagnosis per se is not yet certain or cannot be certain.
Some even advocate for the use of puberty clockers before adolescence. For children at the age of nine or ten…

Now the key question is: when will a person who is still developing, and this is definitely the case with adolescents but especially so with children, when will a person be able to decide something like this, which has lifelong consequences.
We know that young people decide things hastily and in many ways tend to be too hasty. So we know about young people’s levity. And in many areas we are anxious to protect young people and especially children. Consider, for example, the existing regulations for the use of drugs and alcohol, visiting restaurants, attending evening events, the protective measures against media content that facilitates aggression etc.
On the other hand, we assume that c child can already make a decision about puberty-blocking treatment? That I do not believe!

[MuthaFunka61]

@DuchessDumbarton, you're a flippin' star - thank you

[Arella]

Thank you LangCleg for posting this and thank you DuchessDumbarton for transcribing

[AnyOldPrion]

Thanks from me too, for the share and the transcription.

He seems very calm and measured, but the idea of being him, in the centre of all the madness....

[Lamahaha]

@fascinated You are right, Germans are very matter-of-fact, very direct, and don't care a ff about hurting someone's feelings when stating an opinion, which for some people of an Anglo background often feels rude, they get offended, etc. So I have high hopes the movement won't take off there. They are also very wary about ideologies, because of their history.

I honestly can't imagine this ideology taking off in Germany the way it has here. Added to which, Germans are very fussy about distinguishing between males and females, to the extent that these days you no longer use the male version of a word as a collective noun, you have to say "male and female doctors, male and female students, male and female citizens" etc All very clumsy and longwinded and inelegant, if you ask me, but nobody did, so...

Oh, and what a fiasco there would be with pronouns! Even things have genders and they are very particular about "misgendering" things so I can't see them calling an obvious man she etc.

I was in Germany recently and spoke to a friend who was very involved in the feminist movement some years ago; she had no idea of what is happening in the US and UK and was pretty horrified when I told her. So fingers crossed.

[Lamahaha]

Oh, and thanks Lang and Duchess.

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Thank you all so much for this link and transcripts.

[LangCleg]

Thanks so much for the transcriptions, Duchess!

I've watched this three times now and it's such a good interview. It covers all the objections to medicalised child transition that we talk about here, from informed consent, potential adult sexuality, homophobia, puberty blockers locking in transition, etc, but also the social environment and how neoliberal individualism is a driving force.

And yet - he is a professional who is entirely accepting that transition is right for some adults and young adults.

How is it that we here in the UK, with the NHS, which has a reputation for being a cautious, conservative institution that does not get involved in reckless, cowboy practices, has a thoroughly captured service like Tavi & Port? A clinician like this should be the voice of the NHS here. Highly concerning that this is not the case.

[Uncompromisingwoman]

Thank you Lang for this. It's so important that the views of ethical medics who work in the field are allowed to be heard.
There's a good letter in the Sunday Times today from Marcus Evans (ex governor at the Tavistock) about the Tavistock failing children:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/letters-to-the-editor-trans-clinic-is-failing-vulnerable-children-qhwdkb8hh?shareToken=5cb9adf92e4320ebc3052a70fe51d866

[DuchessDumbarton]

Lang I've also gone back and listened to it several times, as he is so logical.
He clearly lays out the arguments I would make (were I so articulate).

I am absolutely allergic to group-think, so, I am always careful when I find myself in agreement with someone...am I biased because of my perception of their authority or expertise?
So, there are some bits I don't agree with- but the overall thrust (which I think is quite humanitarian) makes sense to me.

[DuchessDumbarton]

More transcript (excuse occasional spelling errors)

You want kids to go through puberty. Why?
"Evidence shows, that puberty-blocking treatments, which are presented by the advocates of such treatments as medically harmless, further a transsexual development and render it impossible for the patient to make experiences necessary for the formation of their identity including socio-sexual formation i.e. relationships. These are necessary experiences, also, for a homosexual coming out.
So, in this I see the real problem. That a puberty-blocking treatment, to put it bluntly, could possibly be something like a homosexuality averting project. "

I want to highlight his last sentence.
That a puberty-blocking treatment, to put it bluntly, could possibly be something like a homosexuality averting project.

[LangCleg]

And that's the thing, isn't it? Marcus Evans should be the voice of a cautious, do no harm, NHS. And yet, he's reduced to writing letters to The Times and being locked out of his Twatter account.

[LangCleg]

So, there are some bits I don't agree with- but the overall thrust (which I think is quite humanitarian) makes sense to me.

Same here.

[DuchessDumbarton]

Now, this [homosexuality averting project] is obviously unethical for a medical treatment and nobody would wish for something like that.

You are talking about a transgender-trend. What do you mean by that?
One could think or would have to think about whether Trans, transgender, Trans-identity, Trans-whatever offers a new template for identification. Do we actually know, if we look at it historically, or in retrospect something similar, similar trends, similar hypes from former times?
We know such phenomena, in the 90’s for example, in the last century, there was a similar hype surrounding the condition of multiple personality disorder. No one talks about it anymore these days. That was around the turn of the millennium or, as I said, in the 1990’s, a very common topic at conferences, workshops around that issue and even coverage in television.

[BernardBlacksWineIceLolly]

Isn't it strange lang ? I really have no idea why people at the Tavistock seem to be displaying such poor judgement

[DuchessDumbarton]

Transcript:

So, I think that we are dealing with a zeitgeist phenomenon , too. And if I say a phenomenon is connected to the spirit of the time, I am not judging. I’m not saying that’s good or bad but that there is evidence, an empirical objectively verifiable fact, that today more people and especially the younger generation are categorising themselves as trans.

[DuchessDumbarton]

Transcript:

So are there social causes?

We observe a general tendency of unleashing, of and expand scope, crossing boundaries.
So what do I mean by that? To give examples: the effects of globalisation. The messy international finance, the deregulation taking place there.
The excesses, very different topic, quite another example, of internet pornography.

So, everywhere there is an unleashing by crossing boundaries. This seems to be, as it were, an inherent characteristic of postmodern society and of our neo-liberal economic system.
Including the intrinsic overcalling and augmentation logic: more and more, larger, faster.
And including the enormous change dynamics contained therein.