Gender fluid (male) dancer wins female role in ENB

[Pressyne]

I'm involved (rather tangentially) in ballet and in the last few days I've seen news items about this dancer shared in an uncritical and celebratory manner. Perhaps, in the past, this wouldn't have bothered me much but now, having lurked here for a bit, it really unsettled me.

I dance, but only in a part-time fashion, for love and self-fulfilment. But even in the most amateur and low key productions, the female roles will be fiercely contested by women who've danced from childhood and have often had professional careers derailed through injury or wayward body shapes. For girls pursuing a professional dream they will be up against hundreds of other talented, dedicated females who are all constantly judged and found lacking: a woman who is too tall won't fit with the rest of the corps and will need a taller partner; and those too stocky, with the wrong sort of muscle development, or with boobs that inconveniently appear in teen years will try to mould (often starve) their body. Comparatively, once the boys have negotiated the social stigma attached to a 'girly' art form, they have many more opportunities. And, after a retiring as a dancer, they are far more likely to get a career as artistic director or choreographer (this is hideously disproportionate).

I admire Tamara Rojo deeply. But this 'opening up' of roles seems to go only one way. I doubt many female dancers have the upper body strength to do the lifts required in male roles so they are unlikely to encroach. Apparently, Chase does not even dance on pointe. I cannot imagine the reaction if a female dancer couldn't / wouldn't do this, but suffice to say, she wouldn't be employed for long.

The worst thing is that the younger girls, still out there grafting for work, are not objecting to this.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/10/male-dancer-gender-fluid-wins-part-english-national-ballets/

[Bibesia]

Meh. It's an artistic decision. Did you object to the all-male Swan Lake?

[Hyppolyta]

It was the en pointe bit that got me.

I gave up dancing around 12, and was never that great, however I found that agonising and was a huge factor in me quitting.

Women destroy their feet dancing like this. I do not understand how a female has to do it for a role, yet a male/ transwoman can dance the same role without.

Is this not just more sexism?

[UpstartCrow]

That was a performance, not an award or grant.

[Pressyne]

No, because that was an artistic decision.

[Pressyne]

Not yet good at replying in targeted fashion! But yes, bibesia, sometimes artistic decisions are made and they are are quite explicit (as in male swam lake). This is explicitly a traditional female role which a woman would have to perform on pointe, but a man gets a let out. And, to add insult to injury, celebrated for preforming in a less rigorous and painful way. Ass Hyppolyta says, it's more sexism.

[Imnobody4]

Pressyne
I agree with everything you say. This isn't gender blind casting.I don't for one moment believe he has more talent than other dancers, and he has the option of male roles.

[LadyJaneGreyspen]

Umm it doesn t state their height which would be a big factor . BUT this is
"While Mr Johnsey is not dancing ‘on point’ in The Sleeping Beauty like the other female dancers, there is little to distinguish his performance from their's."
HAHAAA because en pointe is so bloody easy!
The reason they have been chosen is purely because they are gender fluid and not because of ability.
Oh and if my post get banned i am using the telegraphs pronouns in the quote.

[Loopytiles]

I didn’t know any of that about ballet.

[KatyMac]

I warned this would happen - male dancers are stronger, and jump higher and further

In a world where the last 12-15 ads I have seen have all (well one exception looking for male or female) been looking for male dancers

[thebewilderness]

I think it is the general expectation that we celebrate men crowding women out whenever and wherever it happens that Feminists object to.

[FreiasBathtub]

Interesting. I feel like we need more information. Going by the picture, I read the article as saying that they were dancing in a non-pointe role rather than dancing a pointe role on demi pointe or whatever. Plus if they were in Ballets Trock they may well be able to dance en pointe anyway.

That said, I completely agree with OP that men have a much easier ride than women as professional ballet dancers (and WAAAY more opportunities once their dancing career is over). I would much rather have seen Tamara Rojo cast a size 14 woman, or a tall woman, if she's serious about 'opening up roles for a lot of people' at the expense of a completely uniform corps.

I don't think someone born male should be able to take women's parts unless they are demonstrably as good a dancer, including en pointe and as the female part of a pdd, and meet the same stringent identikit requirements that a woman would to be part of the corps. Unless, as OP says,that's an artistic decision. Which this doesn't seem to be.

[Waddlelikeapenguin]

Hummm they are the only non female & they are also the only one who isnt dancing en pointe. Sounds like preferential treatment to me.

[LassWiADelicateAir]

Meh. It's an artistic decision. Did you object to the all-male Swan Lake?

Personally I think it is awful but it isn't on point or en pointe (pun intended) with this as it is an entirely new interpretation.

While Mr Johnsey is not dancing ‘on point’ in The Sleeping Beauty like the other female dancers, there is little to distinguish his performance from their's

Oh ha ha. If he is part of the corps de ballet and they are all en pointe there is a huge amount to distinguish him from them.

[LassWiADelicateAir]

and meet the same stringent identikit requirements that a woman would to be part of the corps

Which is kind of a big deal in classical ballet. Might be slightly less so in Sleeping Beauty (as from memory I recall a lot of the corps sections are partnered dances at the christening / birthday party) but any divergence in the corps in something like Swan Lake Gisele or La Sylphide will stick out like a sore thumb.

[LassWiADelicateAir]

I have just watched a tiny but of Ballet Trock-Swan Lake I had assumed they didn't perform en pointe but it seems they do , at least partly. Still bloody awful.

[FreiasBathtub]

Yep totally agree Lass. I don't think there's any way you wouldn't notice a born male dancer in the corps of one of the white ballets. Anyone who's good enough to have trained to ENB standard as a male dancer will be too tall or too broad. The physique is totally different. And even a man who's danced en pointe is unlikely to have the same level of technique as someone who's trained to do it since their early teens.

In this instance though, unless they are dancing a pointe role on the flat, I'm filing it under 'publicity stunt' and one to keep an eye on....

[TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross]

Clearly from the pictures in this article, he (the article also states he still uses male pronouns, MNHQ) can dance en pointe, though.

[hackmum]

I agree that this probably isn't good news for female ballet dancers. On a related issue, I've always been fascinated by where male ballet dancers come from. In the 12 years my daughter did ballet I never once saw a boy take a ballet class - not in her class, nor in any of the other classes the school ran. Given the huge skill and dedication required to become a professional ballet dancer, you'd imagine that only a tiny proportion of children who start ballet end up becoming professional dancers. So where are they all?

And following on from that, if these days liking ballet is regarded as a sign that a boy must really be a girl, as seems to be the case, where are the future male ballet dancers going to come from?

[boatyardblues]

Hackmum - when I was c 12 yo, a family friend’s ballet dancing son the same age as me was snapped up by one of the London-based companies and given a scholarship for their academy, which involved boarding in London. As far as I know, he had a successful career in dance. I got the impression that talented boy dancers are sufficoently scarce that the companies talent scout and actively develop the ones with promise.

[Lichtie]

It's probably a publicity stunt to get more coverage... Which has worked, but may backfire given some of the feelings.

[NonSuchFun]

I'm not getting this at all. As pp's have said, the point about corps de ballet is its uniformity and in something like Swan Lake if he is the wrong height and can't go on point, well he may as well turn left when the others turn right. But I wonder why he is so keen to be in the corps?
 
I know nothing about ballet, but remember going to a production of Swan Lake with my daughter's ballet class. It was a minor, Russian state ballet tour and we had seats right at the front and were able to see more detail than normal.  One of the Corps appeared to have a back injury, her face was like thunder, she was not able to stretch backwards or be as flexible in some of the movements as the rest.  There seemed to be lots of exchanged looks of sympathy from the others and sometimes they seemed to close up a little to obscure her.  I read the programme and the bio's of the featured dancers and thought about their lives.  A child or two back home in an obscure part of Russia.  Months spent touring minor UK towns and cities, staying in probably fairly utilitarian hotels, the daily grind of morning training class, matinees and evening performances.
 
I don't in anyway diminish the work of the women in the corps, the struggle to get there, but I assume most of them once  dreamed of being the prima ballerina, but, like a Queen Bee, those parts are for the few, the remainder forever unknown in the Corps, and with limited future opportunities.
 
So why is it such a great achievement for a 32 year old male to join in, at an age when many of the women will have realised they are never going to get the starring role and are already looking for an escape route. If he is so talented why not really try to break the mold - a new Nijinsky in the Rite of Spring, with genders mixed up, a male sacrifice - something like that could be really exciting.  Instead he has opted to join the women in the Corps de Ballet.
Is it just the ultimate test of "passing"?
 

[NonSuchFun]

Obv I get that he's not in Swan Lake this time, but he can't stay in the Sleeping Beauty for ever.

[SussexBonfireViking]

My son dances Flamenco, and sadly there are just not enough male dancers. He got his first year free to encourage him to dance (he's bloody good now !)


I don't know if this is a publicity stunt (as all the corp are meant to dance the same, and he's not en pointe) but people are talking about it

[Pressyne]

Obviously cross gender casting can, and frequently does, arise from artistic decisions. Matthew Bourne's Swan lake being one of the most obvious (the strength and power of real swans inspiring the casting idea and leading on into the more subversive elements). And there are 'female' parts that I've seen performed by men and women - these are often the grotesque roles like Carabosse in Sleeping Beauty where a male dancer might bring more menace - or there are the drag comedic roles in, for example, some of Ashton's ballets. I would say, though, that in recent years the traffic is mainly one way! The indy article talks about female dancers potentially taking male roles but, while this happened a fair amount in the 19th century (Franz in Coppelia was often played by a woman back in those days), it doesn't really seem to occur much today. And I would think that the greater demand for athleticism now in dance would be a barrier to this.

Johnsey is, indeed, only dancing in the character shoes. But I really don't think that would offered to a woman whose pointe work wasn't adequate for the rest of the ballet. I read that this also means the costume covers his body shape (again women in ballet don't get exemptions on less than perfect body type!). The trocks do dance en pointe, but they are dancing largely for comedic effect so a bit of stumbling, heaving themselves up, giving up halfway is all part of the act. He has said elsewhere that her wasn't doing it correctly and was having to relearn. The trocks are a talented group and I don't want to minimise the fact that he is an extremely gifted dancer. Had he been hired as a soloist to dance Carabosse or even put an original spin on one of the other fairies(ironically better profile roles), I would have said good luck to him. Dance should look at subverting and exploring gender stereotypes. But I don't think that's what he wants to do: I think my discomfort arises from the fact that he's said that he wants to dance traditional female roles and be accepted as a ballerina and I think he's being offered leeway a girl wouldn't.

Height-wise, at 165 he is on the small side for a male dancer so he wouldn't stand out in the corps. Being small can inhibit a man's career but he is taller (by 7cm) than Wayne Sleep and exactly the same height as Barryshnikov. I also agree that there are - and should be - other ways to open up ballet. For one thing it is still extremely white. And, as said, the physical demands on female dancers are extreme (I blame Balanchine) At the ENB's own school the girls are regularly weighed and set targets (they have to leave if they don't meet them).

I believe he left the Trocks after accusing them of discrimination and harassment for looking too effeminate (they found no evidence which isn't to say it couldn't happen). I have to look further, but it seems that he wanted to dress as a ballerina in rehearsal and on the way to venues etc and they wouldn't allow it. He also said they told him he'd have to leave if he transitioned. The trocks are the campest of groups and are all gay men but they are very explicit that these are men, so I'm not sure why he would expect that they'd allow him to stay if he had GRS (He now says he's no intention of having surgery). Most companies have strict rules about presentation in rehearsal etc. Mostly these apply to women - ironically he wanted to assume these restrictions. He was also tipped in the past as the next director of the trocks.

[Pressyne]

Hackmum, I agree. I used to think that because the physical demands in ballet are so different for men and women and the fact that dancers are so aware of anatomical structure, this would protect it from the idea that liking ballet made you a girl. Hopefully, in the main it still will.

Boys can start so much later and have really good careers. I do know girls who started in mid to late teens and went on to pro careers but it's unusual. Johnsey at 14, is by no means a late starter for boys. Sometimes they move across from other dance disciplines. And yes, the talented ones get snapped up quickly!

Nonsuchfun, again, I agree. As a male dancer there are so many avenues he could go down and explore gender. And you are right about the corps - it can be miserable! Especially for those standing stock still for ages. I think "ultimate passing" summed up why I'm uneasy.