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Calling all gender critical guiders!

(40 Posts)
AgnesBadenPowell Tue 13-Mar-18 10:25:54

You might have seen the posts in feminism chat and AIBU last week about Girlguiding's new-ish transgender policy.

In case you missed them, the threads discussed how GG are now defining girlhood on the "innate sense of being a girl". GG is ignoring its ignoring its own research into the damage gender stereotypes do to our young women; parental consent is ignored and we now have the ridiculous scenario where a guider's 6 year old son must sleep in his own tent or pod in his mother's tent and use the male facilities on camp, but a self identifying transgirl (ie boy) of 14 is just fine sharing a tent/loos/showers with a 10 year old girl. The girl's feelings are not taken into account and her parents will not be informed.

A few of us gender critical guiders have got together away from MN to share ideas and think about how we might challenge this policy. Our individual letters to GGHQ have been ignored or dismissed but there is strength and safety in numbers.

If you'd like to join us, or you know a guider or parent that has concerns, then please PM me or @drspouse

drspouse Tue 13-Mar-18 10:56:02


AgnesBadenPowell Tue 13-Mar-18 11:03:01

<waves back>

MrsKCastle Tue 13-Mar-18 13:22:45

Thanks for this. I'm one of you but didn't take part in the previous thread. It is a real concern for me though.
I will PM later.

averylongtimeago Tue 13-Mar-18 13:35:35


DoctorW Tue 13-Mar-18 14:29:53

This is a great idea. GGHQ needs to take your concerns seriously and its all too easy to dismiss an individual. Its also safer to speak out in unity. I really hope your group of gender critical guide leaders grows. We need your voices.

Waddlelikeapenguin Tue 13-Mar-18 14:37:28

Good for you flowers
The GG responses to letters on the other thread were horrifying.

SuitedandBooted Tue 13-Mar-18 14:53:00


Could I ask you to post something here, please?

Think you could help get a few more signers!

averylongtimeago Tue 13-Mar-18 14:56:11

If you would be prepared to write to gghq it would be helpful.
The more their position is questioned the better.

Beamur Tue 13-Mar-18 14:58:08

Hi, I've been reading your threads. I'm a Guide parent and interested in this. I've gently broached this with the Leaders, one thinks it's all positive, the other doesn't but it seems a rather prickly topic.

EchoGivesNarcissusTheFinger Tue 13-Mar-18 16:29:51

Hello, I'm a horrified lurker and trainee guide leader. I've PM'd you, Agnes . Thank you so much for your efforts so far and for bringing this to our attention.

AgnesBadenPowell Tue 13-Mar-18 17:06:36

@averylongtimeago I have written girlguiding and again today. I'm aware that others have done the same. We have received the same stock email response with a link to the equality and diversity policy; the very document we have been questioning. Hence this thread - if they won't listen to individuals they may listen to a group.

AgnesBadenPowell Tue 13-Mar-18 17:07:11

@EchoGivesNarcissusTheFinger I've read your PM and will reply properly after work

AgnesBadenPowell Tue 13-Mar-18 17:28:36

@SuitedandBooted I have just done that! Hopefully will increase awareness. If I'm feeling brave I could always do my own AIBU post!

SlowlyShrinking Tue 13-Mar-18 17:41:28

I’m not a guider, or involved in guides (in fact I don’t have any daughters) but thanks for standing up for girls. The thing about a guider’s son quite rightly not being able to sleep with or change with the girls, but a teenage boy who “identifies” as a girl being ok to share showers with girls is just mind-blowing. And reminiscent of the potential situation in a women’s refuge, where a mother wouldn’t be allowed to bring her son if he was over 10, but any man who said he was a woman would be allowed in. Terrifying and ridiculous.

TheMonstrousRegiment Tue 13-Mar-18 19:02:07

Like Slowly I don't have any GGs (well actually Scouts anymore), but this is so important. Well done for getting your voices out there!

Bumping this for more notice.

MumOfTheMoos Tue 13-Mar-18 20:07:15

Agree with Slowly and Monstrous- thank you very much for doing this. Only have a son as well but Girl Guides is so important for Girls and has been doing such good work - how could they trash it so?

WorriedAndTired Thu 15-Mar-18 16:03:13

Just been directed here from another thread. I have a DD who is both in guides and scouts. I will pm you.

WorriedandTerfy Fri 16-Mar-18 00:28:58

DH’s response is ‘it’s all getting a bit silly now. Shall we send the DSs to the guide hut, say they feel like ladies & they want to join, and see what they say?’
Swiftly followed by ‘bugger this, she’s leaving guides’

As much as I’d love to see DS1 with his moustache, deep voice and size 13 feet in a guide uniform for a laugh, he may have a bit of trouble fitting in. But I’d be ok with him sharing a tent with his sister.

MrsUnderwood Fri 16-Mar-18 06:46:41

I’m a guider and my DD has just started Rainbows. I’m interested in what we can do to help.

drspouse Fri 16-Mar-18 09:25:01

@MrsUnderwood I'll message you.

WorriedandTerfy Wed 21-Mar-18 19:00:19

We’ve just withdrawn DD from guides and written to GGHQ to explain why.

We said we understood that GG was about ‘supporting other girls to learn body confidence’ and to ‘campaign for rights of girls all over the world’ And felt that their new policy on trans girls was at odds with their mission statements. Particularly when it seems their policy is not to inform parents of a trans person on a residential , nor indeed had we been informed as parents of any general change in policy.

And that DD has joined scouts where they still have a policy of separating children into sleeping tents by sex, rather than any self Id-ed gender.

Will see what they say.

I’m expecting a red hot email to scream burn the terf witch at me.

So be it.

vintagegirlguide Wed 21-Mar-18 19:49:14

Hi, I’ve been a lurker on mumsnet for many years and a guide leader even longer. I’m very concerned about girlguiding’s policy on this. I’ve PM’d you Agnes.

drspouse Wed 21-Mar-18 20:44:18

Worried I'm really sorry to tell you but Scouting has been "educated" by Mermaids and they also won't tell parents if a girl identifying as a boy or vice versa has joined the troop and is sharing with the children of opposite biological sex.

WorriedandTerfy Wed 21-Mar-18 20:50:47

Drspouse, I also volunteer with our local scouts and know all the leaders personally.
Whilst scout HQ may hold such ideas, in our little corner of ex army middle England they hold no truck with such ideas, and are not in any way afraid to call a spade a spade or a penis a penis

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