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Can we please have a trans rights for dummies thread?

(7 Posts)
welliments Wed 14-Feb-18 02:02:45

I find what seems to be happening really interesting but my knowledge is not great and it doesn’t seem to be a topic that mainstream media is covering. I try to read the threads but a lot of it goes over my head. Could someone with a bit of time explain to us less informed wtf is going on? Maybe with a glossary to cover things like cis (still don’t know what this means) and the key players? I feel like if what’s happening could be communicated to us less politically informed, maybe more support could be gathered?

thebewilderness Wed 14-Feb-18 03:43:05

We are faced with a legal question regarding gender identity.
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

The term cis is from chemistry. When describing isomers they are cis or trans. We are human beings. Not isomers.
The self ID changes to law currently under consideration would not require any medical assessments nor surgical changes. The person would simply fill out a form that they identify as a man or woman and they are then legally entitled to b treated as such.
To women who know their history it appears to be an effort to drive women out of the public sphere by removing sex protections.
There are no rights that women have that trans identified males are deprived of except access to female segregated spaces.

Ereshkigal Thu 15-Feb-18 20:09:07

This is what you're after OP: Break it down for me?
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

TheButterflyOfTheStorms Thu 15-Feb-18 20:22:30

For me the really important thing is...

Sex = biology. Includes genes, distribution of strength, height, weight and things like male-pattern baldness. There are two; male and female. One sex carries young, the other supplies sperm. Plus some intersex people who don't want to be dragged into this debate.

Gender = expression. How people chose to present or are encouraged by society to present. High heels, make-up, topless or not. Neck-stretching, ruffles, pink, and facial tattoos depending on time, place and culture.

Sex is innate (in every cell in your body) and not changeable. Gender is very changeable personally and culturally.

Broadly I feel that gender is harmful and promotes stereotypes but I don't care how people want to present.

WiseOldHag Thu 15-Feb-18 20:42:38

What thebewilderness said - (only louder)

*The self ID changes to law currently under consideration would not require any medical assessments nor surgical changes.

The person would simply fill out a form that they identify as a man or woman and they are then legally entitled to b treated as such.

To women who know their history it appears to be an effort to drive women out of the public sphere by removing sex protections.

There are no rights that women have that trans identified males are deprived of except access to female segregated spaces.*

Datun Fri 16-Feb-18 09:00:47

welliments

Read the link provided by Ereshkigal which should give you the basics.

Then come back and ask questions.

Questions are good, however daft they sound your head.

It's a complicated subject.

nauticant Fri 16-Feb-18 09:30:12

Some pointers @welliments. Note that I refer to men "tranisitioning" to become transwomen. Women can transition to become transmen, but most of the problems that women are concerned with relate to men.

Sex and gender are different. It's good to get the difference clear in your head.

Not all trans people are the same. There are groups with very different motivations.

The reason why trans has suddenly become a subject of active disagreement is because of proposals to enable someone to switch to the opposite gender (although it would have the same effect as "switching sex" (which is not possible)) just by signing a piece of paper to say "I am a woman". This is referred to as self-ID.

Self-ID means that people who just declare "I am a woman" can legally be recognised as women even if they don't change their appearance, take any drugs to feminise their appearance, or have any sexual reassignment surgery.

The means that if the law were to be changed, fully "intact" and "functioning" men could obtain access into spaces where women are vulnerable, women's refuges, places were women are having intimate examinations, changing rooms, prisons, toilets, etc.

There is a push from some in the trans community to allow children to take these take these drugs to feminise their appearance that will result in them being sterile, have non-functioning gentalia, and no awareness of sexual desire, ever. These children will also need to be on drugs for their whole lives unless they decide to "return" to their own sex but it won't be possible to undo much of the damage. Needless to say, this is a great point of concern to both to male and female children.

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