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Canada is about to remove FGM as a harmful practice from their Citizenship Guide

(19 Posts)
DJBaggySmalls Fri 01-Dec-17 00:30:54

Theres a petition for Canadians to sign, I dont think if people from outside Canada can do so. Can you share on social media please.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Fri 01-Dec-17 00:40:09

The current "Discover Canada" guide dates back to 2011 when the previous Conservative government did its own overhaul designed to provide more information on Canadian values and history

Some of the Conservatives' insertions attracted controversy, including increased detail about the War of 1812 and a warning that certain "barbaric cultural practices," such as honour killings and female genital mutilation, are crimes in Canada.

Getting rid of both those elements was what former Liberal Immigration Minister John McCallum had in mind when he said early in 2016 that the book was up for a rewrite. But although work has been underway for over a year, there's no date set for publication of a final version.

More evidence of the insanity of the liberal left. It is not racist or offensive to describe a cultural practice as "barbaric" if it is actually barbaric.

PricklyBall Fri 01-Dec-17 07:15:05

I suppose for once you can't fault their logic.

GC feminist: don't you think encouraging young vulnerable biological females, often with autism, to mutilate their bodies and impair their sexual and reproductive function might be a bit like FGM?

Lefty dude-bro: that's okay, we've realised FGM isn't such a bad thing anyway.

FizzyWaterAndElderflower Fri 01-Dec-17 07:57:04

More evidence of the insanity of the liberal left. It is not racist or offensive to describe a cultural practice as "barbaric" if it is actually barbaric.

I'm with you 100%

If it's the word 'barbaric' that they particularly object to for some nebulous, historical reason, then they need to find a new word, which still denotes how unacceptable it is to lop bits off children and babies to make them 'marriageable', not remove the whole idea of it being wrong.

MrsTerryPratchett Fri 01-Dec-17 17:14:57

I know how this looks from the UK. But this was part of a wider blatant and nasty campaign by the conservatives to win based on dog whistle discrimination. It (from talking to people) partly lost them the election to Justin Trudeau. I don't agree with a lot of the politics here but using racism and inflammatory language to win votes is unCanadian 🇨🇦

Of course FGM is barbaric. But stopping it is more complicated than using that language to encourage people to hate their neighbours.

It's unsurprisingly that so many of the signatures are Alberta's. Homeland of Conservatives and the racism capital of Canada.

BlindYeo Fri 01-Dec-17 23:47:51

What racist and inflammatory language was actually used? There is an awful lot of shouting "racist" at people these days for expressing any opinion not 100% in favour of unfettered immigration and the turning of a blind eye to any dodgy cultural attitudes and practices of those who arrive. It happens regularly on MN when there is a debate about something such as headcoverings on girls, niqabs, taharrush gamea and so on. There is a huge dog-whistle response on the Left of: "You just don't like brown people, you right wing, Leave/Conservative-voting, Daily Fail-reading racist."

It doesn't surprise me that the same strategy is being used against feminists over the transgender issue too - it's such a successful technique.

FGM is a barbaric practice. I can't criticise the citizens of Alberta or any other province for wanting strong condemnation of it in that document. I think it's unbelievably depressing that my taxes now have to (and must) be spent on dealing with such a ghastly imported problem.

PerfectlyDone Fri 01-Dec-17 23:52:37

Well, I am one of the liberal left, but am getting very fed up with this attitude of 'anything goes' and not judging anything at all ever, even when it is very apparently barbaric and ought to be condemned as a practice.

MrsTerryPratchett Fri 01-Dec-17 23:54:52

I absolutely agree. However in this case it really did appear to be an attempt to emulate American politics and win votes by attacking newcomers. Bear in mind that Canada is fairly selective with immigration (geography helps) so it is a different system.

MrsTerryPratchett Sat 02-Dec-17 00:00:37

Oh and the language wasn't 'barbaric FGM' it was 'barbaric cultural practices' targeting Muslims. And not because the conservatives were concerned about women and girls. As far as I can tell it was a misguided attempt to appeal to racism.

The are massive feminist issues here. Don't get me wrong. FGM being one of them. But this wasn't about that.

pisacake Sat 02-Dec-17 01:49:13

It wasn't?

"In Canada, men and women are equal under the law. Canada’s openness and generosity do not extend to barbaric cultural practices that tolerate spousal abuse, “honour killings,” female genital mutilation, forced marriage or other gender-based violence. Those guilty of these crimes are severely punished under Canada’s criminal laws."

Yes let's delete that so people who think men and women are not equal are welcome. Hurrah. Prioritise their feelings.

WombOfOnesOwn Sat 02-Dec-17 02:02:05

I feel bad for having to admit that cultural conservatives were right, and liberal men are happily selling out women in the name of multicultural tolerance. It seems like all types of misogyny are starting to be allowed in the name of diversity. As if whether to hurt women and girls is just an opinion with no moral value one way or another.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 02-Dec-17 12:53:32

Oh and the language wasn't 'barbaric FGM' it was 'barbaric cultural practices' targeting Muslims.

But it wasn't?

Canada’s openness and generosity do not extend to barbaric cultural practices that tolerate spousal abuse, “honour killings,” female genital mutilation, forced marriage or other gender-based violence.

If any culture or faith ticks those boxes it deserves criticism.

cuirderussie Sat 02-Dec-17 16:14:53

My Canadian friends baffle me. They are dedicated feminists yet the loudest thing they've protested this year is the ban on niqabs in Quebec, which is "racist". No debate tolerated on the ethics of defending a backward misogynistic cultural practice which predates Islam, or the fact that several African and Middle Eastern countries also ban it.

DJBaggySmalls Sat 02-Dec-17 16:25:18

FGM appears to be tolerated.
Legislation to deal with it was opposed by the ACLU in America.
Theresa May has said there will never be a case prosecuted in the UK, despite the fact that some 18 girls a year are cut in the UK.
And now instead of rewording this document, all mention of it is being removed.

Its pointless something being illegal if anyone can do it without fear of prosecution.

claraschu Sat 02-Dec-17 16:41:52

Please check facts carefully, and be aware that issues are often more complex than they appear at first. The ACLU did not oppose legislation to make FGM illegal; it is already illegal. Here is a link:

Sometimes legal bills have several layers of political ramifications, which are not easily understood, especially if you are reading about a foreign country.

I have a rule of thumb when I am too lazy to do a bit of research: if something is supported by all the arseholes, it is probably bad. I am not saying my rule is infallible, but it is a good stopgap while I am gathering information.

DJBaggySmalls Sat 02-Dec-17 22:35:06

claraschu - the Maine Bill was partly to criminalise 'vacation cutting'.

Here's another pov;
''Republican Rep. Heather Sirocki is sponsoring the bill, saying that it would classify performing FGM as a Class B crime in the state, punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $20,000 fine. The bill would also punish the parent or guardian of the victim.

However, the Maine ACLU staunchly opposes the protection. ACLU spokesman Oamshri Amarasingham said that the risk of mutilation isn’t worth expanding Maine’s criminal code. The Maine Coalition Against Sexual Assault also supported the ACLU, arguing that FGM is not happening in Maine.''

''Sirocki, however, pointed to a 2012 report from the Center for Disease Control, which found 500,000 victims of FGM in the US. Furthermore, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement found that 400 individuals have been arrested and 785 deported for FGM violations nationwide since 2003.

Maine, Sirocki said, is one of the eight highest-risk areas in the US for FGM. The practice has proven to be so rampant in the state that it has received special federal funding to combat it.

Sirocki’s bill would also criminalize “vacation cutting,” the practice of flying briefly overseas to subject minors to FGM in nations that haven’t banned the practice. ''

I'm not right wing. If I lived in the USA I doubt I'd vote Republican.

nooka Sun 03-Dec-17 03:08:51

I don't know about the American issues you raise but MrsTerryPratchett is quite right 'barbaric cultural practices' was a phrase used during the last election here by a right wing government that decided turning further to the right would bring it electoral victory. They were wrong, but the campaign stirred up some nasty racism that was particularly directed against newer immigrants vs 'old stock Canadians'. It was really unpleasant and seemed to go against normal Canadian values towards being generally nice to people. As an example there was a proposal for a dedicated phone line where you could report your neighbours for their 'barbaric cultural practices.

I do think that Canada could and should do more about FGM, but I'm not sure that a line in a guide did anything very useful really.

MrsTerryPratchett Sun 03-Dec-17 03:44:09

Thanks @nooka

It's not that Canada doesn't have a long way to go... it does. But this was just Harper using women and muslims as pawns. To the benefit of neither.

BlindYeo Sun 03-Dec-17 22:13:21

Well said Womb

And yes about niqabs cuir.

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