Feeling a little isolated

[LilaTheLion]

I'm feeling a lot like all I hear is 'men are simple creatures', 'well it's men, isn't it, they don't understand', 'men don't see mess', mention can't... ', 'typical man' BOLLOCKS constantly.

No. I would not and do not put up with that crap. Why should I enable you to by smiling and nodding, empathising with your crap choice of man and your acceptance of your 'woman's lot in life'?

I might go on. Tbh I'm fucking fuming with the whole nonsense.

Would anyone like to help me feel not alone in this?

[pinkyredrose]

You are not alone. Infantilising men does no-one any favours.

[LilaTheLion]

It's driving me round the bend.

How do you answer these statements?

[IAmAmy]

It's ridiculous. Saying "men can't do x" or "women can't do y" is limiting and entirely outdated. I'm not sure this is the kind of thing you'd be looking for but the subject reminds me of this book: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusions_of_Gender

[LilaTheLion]

I've just been informed, on another thread, that Men 'aren't as clued up'. WTAFuckery?!

It's EXHAUSTING. I'm not getting into a bun fight on someone's support thread, but this nonsense needs to stop. ESPECIALLY on here.

[MrsJayy]

Sometimes women say these things to be superior and in control its bloody frustrating. What can you say to women who truly believe they can do be better than their partners

[ChocChocPorridge]

When people say these things around me, I tend to look indignant, and say something along the lines of 'he's a 38 year old man' or 'he's a grown adult!'

then act disbelieving that any adult would could unintentionally be so incompetent.

[MrsJayy]

Yes that is what i tend to do I act confused that a grown adult could be so clueless i never support the belief of 'ach he is just a man'

[IAmAmy]

This is very much one way, such things are said about women and men. They're usually grounded in outdated notions of who's tasks certain things are, as with one of the examples the OP gave of "men don't see mess" as it's deemed to be women's job to keep things tidy. These sorts of statements are bad for all.

[IAmAmy]

Very much not one way sorry.

[NeverEverAnythingEver]

"then act disbelieving that any adult would could unintentionally be so incompetent."

I think it's "intentionally incompetent". If they demonstrate they can't do it then you would just have to do it yourself. I'm sorry to be cynical, but people who can fucking run the fucking world cannot do the dishes? Put away the laundry? Huh.

Obviously NAMALT etc etc

[scallopsrgreat]

Infantilising men puts more work and responsibility on women.

Women may spout it to make it seem like they are more in control but really it is men making excuses for why they cant be arsed to do/talk/provide support about something which is basically beneath them. It is pretty shit tbh. I don believe that these women really do think they are superior. I think its possibly the other way round. Their spouse thinks they are superior and the womb find a way to deal with it.

[scallopsrgreat]

womb????? Women, obviously!

[MorrisZapp]

My best friend spouts this stuff endlessly. Her dh is domestically lazy and a fairly textbook Disney dad. 'oh it's just how it is, I'm lucky really', 'he's stressed out at work' etc etc.

I nod and smile because the alternative just feels too mean.

[KERALA1]

Ime the only people who say this are not very bright. None of my friends would spout such drivel. One bought a friend of hers to a meet up who came out with this nonsense and I knew I didn't want to get to know her any better.

[ChocChocPorridge]

To be fair in this, my other half (and eldest son - who is very much like his father) is away with the fairies when it comes to practical things like knowing which way up a screwdriver goes.

We do all have strengths and weaknesses, and, for instance, I watch him peeling potatoes with a horrified look on my face, because I'm endlessly surprised that despite doing a lot of cooking, he's managed to keep all his fingers. DS1, similarly, has to concentrate so hard just pouring a glass of milk, that I keep him away from things that could cause injury if distracted part way through (unlike DS2 who's very practical - like me) - at least until he's older.

But, just like no-one follows me around with a stool to stand on for situations where being short makes life harder, I can't let DP and DS1 off things just because they're harder for them, they have to do/learn to do this stuff because that's part of being/becoming an adult.

[MissWillaCather]

I think scallops describes it perfectly.

My sil is like this and it does my head in. She is a domestic slave for her DH and sons, all grown up, although she works full time. Couldn't expect the boys to do it

She expects me to teach dd the domestic arts, but not ds....it's like a parallel universe. And then depressing.

So, op, I agree with you.

[Dervel]

I'm quite messy, and a man. It's not that I don't see mess, I am just not overly fussed by clutter (as long as everything is clean/hygienic).

I have found when it comes to relationships the solution is to seek compatibility with women who have the same attitude that I do.

The idea of having a woman running around as my skivvy is unappealing in the extreme. Back in my pre single father years I had a flat that was something of a social hub for my friendship circle which I would have to keep somewhat tidy, because if I didn't one of my friends (90% of the time it was usually a female friend) would take it upon themselves to help by tidying up.

Funnily enough upon having had a child who really likes to be tidy I make a lot more of an effort. He generally likes to be neat and well presented, and it's kinda fun keeping things clean and tidy with him as part of a team.

I am wondering if this issue is more about where compromises are made in relationships? If the compromises in a relationship aren't broadly speaking 50/50 it's not really a relationship is it? I mean if one person is propping up the whole enterprise where nothing is asked of the other party you have a dynamic that's doomed to failure sooner or later.

[IAmAmy]

Willa that must be frustrating. Not only that it persists in happening so often but the the cycle probably continues as her sons are more likely to think domestic jobs are for women to do whilst girls being brought up in a similar way are likely to believe it's their duty to do them (and that men are apparently incapable). These ideas of gendered roles should have disappeared by now.

[FloodMud]

An acquaintance of mine saw DH and DS shopping in the supermarket and asked DH if I was ill. When he said no she responded "Well, why on earth are you doing the shopping then? And with the baby?!"

Something women do everyday and she was literally baffled that he would be more than capable!

[scallopsrgreat]

I'll just point out that I am messy (I'm a lot better than I was - it's called having children and my threshold for messiness being breached!). Probably messier than my partner. But no-one has ever described me as "not seeing the mess" or made excuses for me because I'm female. They've all rightly said it's because I'm lazy and I don't make it a priority.

I also don't expect other people to tidy up after me.

And I do see what you are saying ChocChoc porridge about being good (or not) at practical stuff. But that tends to manifest itself across the board - not just in those tasks you want your partner to do for you.

[MrsJayy]

I am messy sometimes but im lazy clutter does not bother me i can see it though

[IAmAmy]

FloodMud oh dear. My dad does our weekly shop and thankfully I see quite a few men doing similar. As for "and with the baby" - bad enough she thought shopping should be for women to do without being shocked at a father spending time with his child

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Is this from the same thread that also declared that a woman who's not feeling good (to whatever degree) should be cosseted with tea and chocolate? I think that's no more or less annoying tbh, but that didn't get picked up on.

Fair play to you for starting a new thread and not derailing the other one though.

[MrsJayy]

Our children are adults we equal parented where possible but people usually women wanted to give dh a medal for just doing stuff really annoyed me i got no medal for doing the same stuff. Only person didnt give him a medal was his mum she always used to say well they are his children too

[LilaTheLion]

I'm messy (female), and so is DP (male). We both make a bit of an effort, so we don't live in an absolute hovel. But sometimes it just decends until one of us snaps and cleans up. We both 'see' the mess, buy its neither of our priorities to do much about it, because it's boring. We have both said it's not fair for one or other of us to bear the brunt of cleaning though. Despite our differing genitals.