yay, it worked(23 Posts)
It's a shame the derailers can't be banned from some threads so as to allow unimpeded discussion but permitted to post on others where they could serve the useful purpose of facilitating the instruction of the next generation of feminists in how to see off the MRA arguments.
Actually yes you're right Tunip, the "anything goes" aspect of this place has its charms as well as the downsides.
I'm finding that thread fascinating as well, in between the nincompoopery.
Mooncup great idea, mine needs doing, the grass is knee high.
I am being a bit sensitive. I am aware that I sometimes stand out as being way out there..........> It's ok Tunip.
The derailers, often male......quite frustrating at times but only a reflection of the huge task we have in front of us if we are going to make any progress. Which is why I say lets keep at it.
'Other discussion places seem quite prescriptive about what is the acceptable brand of feminism for that place.'
Yes, I agree with that too. A lot of places are either radfem or not-radfem or else try-to-be-both-radfem-and-not-and-the-only-way-to-achieve-that-is-to-ban-discussions-of-contentious-issues.
I share and I "like" on FB / twitter tough have recently had someone come on to tell me that they were fed up with all this "shit" I post. I defriended her forthwith but am now afraid that my FB audience is not ready for some of the stuff I agree with and would want to share. I feel very sad about that.
'Also some of the best posts I've ever seen from my fellow MN feminists have been in response to derailers'
Yes, so true
One thing I really like about this board is discussions between feminists about things they don't agree on. Other discussion places seem quite prescriptive about what is the acceptable brand of feminism for that place. It helps my thinking about issues and I've changed my mind about a few things since reading this board.
I don't post often in this section but I do lurk because I want to learn. What it has taught me is how to make my daughters see that they are feminists for wanting equality, and that they should never settle for shoddy treatment just because they're women.
Well, I started the other thread and I find your posts fascinating, Mini. I love it when a thread develops in an unexpected interesting direction.
I find the faux naive derailers can be quite amusing... if I'm getting too wound up I just wander off and do some gardening. Also some of the best posts I've ever seen from my fellow MN feminists have been in response to derailers; there's not much to say when we all agree with each other!
Oh no Mini. Sorry, I didn't mean it to come across like that. I just mean technically it is because the OP was about the MRAs and the conference rather than the class thing, but IMO the stuff you are saying with the others is what is currently really worthwhile and interesting about the thread and it would be a great shame if it stopped. It's not about the brand of feminism being wrong at all. Derails aren't always bad.
discussion which is going on amongst the derails and technically is itself a derail really, only one brand of feminism is allowed. I would rather someone had said this on the other thread
I have never once thought your arguments weak, you are concise and to the point (makes note must write shorter posts) you say it how it is and how you see it and I'm glad of it. And you would be missed.
I agree with others, sometimes I just think, well I'm sure someone will read this and it will help them.
As regards MRAs, trolls and the menz, I usually take some satisfaction in driving their arguments to the wall. Plus, I think we need them to listen, so I just keep typing in the hope they take something sensible away from the discussion.
Don't let the bastards get you down and please don't leave.
I am a lurker, I don't identify as a feminist, but I have learned so much from reading these boards that I am beginning to understand why I should be one.
I just wanted to thank those who do 'patiently engage' for their wisdom.
I am much more Zen about it now though.
I used to get frustrated about the impossibility of having a conversation about any aspect of feminism without it getting derailed by someone who needs the basics explaining slowly and carefully. Now I just accept that that is how it is with Mumsnet feminism, and the conversations where I learn stuff happen elsewhere.
However, since I am in several fantastic feminist Facebook groups and a brilliant thriving RL one, I don't have trouble finding interesting feminist discussion. When the topic was new, back in the high and far off times, there was less other stuff around.
Having said that, I am learning a lot about class vs gender as the basis of a liberation movement, from a discussion which is going on amongst the derails and technically is itself a derail.
I keep it to real life or closed groups.
Neh mind eh.
I can understand why you feel the way you do, but I have to tell you that I'm very grateful to everyone who has posted thought-provoking, interested comments on the Feminism board here. I don't often post, but I do read, and reading some of the threads about feminism has helped me be able to articulate or to validate thoughts/opinions I had, and has educated me to an enormous degree. And that's had a knock-on effect on the way I've raised my sons and my expectations of them.
So yes, post for the lurkers - please don't assume that the reactionary critic who answers you is the only person reading. And thank you.
I am with you, chibi
I rarely post in here now
It's too much a beacon for the wankers and those that would excuse them.
I just can't be arsed any more. My blood pressure thanks me for it.
Same here tunip, I find I just don't give a shit any more, because I don't really have the same investment in the place. I'm so much less inclined to give someone the benefit of the doubt or engage patiently with them because I figure there are quite a few people who hang around here purely looking for a chance to accuse people of being man-haters and to spout venom at them. My attitude used to be that you should maintain reasonableness but now my attitude is that they can fuck off, the wankers.
I think you just have to go with the flow. Only post if you are in the mood. Post for the lurkers, knowing full well that the person you are talking to isn't actually going to take any notice. And go elsewhere for the proper conversations. It is an advantage in a way, that you know exactly what is going to happen because you've seen it so many times before. I seldom post but when I do I don't get half as wound up as I used to.
all those people who post in the hopes that their droning strawfeminist arguments will dissuade women from talking about feminism- well, it worked with me.
i used to post quite regularly on these boards but don't much nowadays. i started to taper off when i realised that i was constantly making arguments to affirm women's humanity to people who did not see it, and who did not care. e.g. explaining for the 5445562 time that being raped isn't like being burglarized.
i just don't have the energy anymore! even posting this, i know there will be those who will jump on me for not being more resilient, and maybe suggest my arguments must have been wrong, or weak.
it's funny, i am still active in real life, i just can't bear to get involved in online discussions anymore, they feel so tedious and predictable- women patiently arguing with facts while others assert that all the things which happen to disadvantage or harm women happen accidentally, coincidentally, or actually not at all.
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