Why does any discussion about FGM inevitably have someone talking about circumcision?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

I know there are those who argue that circumcision is genital mutilation. But why in any discussion of FGM, does someone have to say or post - well men have their genitals mutilated too - look at circumcision.

Discussing FGM does not implicit mean that we all think circumcision is a great idea. It is possible to discuss an issue by itself without surely having to say - and these people are affected too. FGM is a female issue.

It is equivalent to every time penile cancer is mentioned, women post saying well women can get cancer in their genitals too. We are allowed to discuss issues specific to men without women saying well what about women? Why can't we do this with women's issues like FGM?

Disclaimer: I do know the answer really, but bloody hell, this does annoy me.

[grimbletart]

You're so right EatsBrains. When I see a thread on FGM I have a personal bet with myself that "what about male circumcision" will appear before six posts.
I am rarely wrong.

It's really strange. You sometimes get the same response on some message boards talking about female cancers - up pop posters saying, what about prostate cancer?

It's not a bloody competition FFS!

[FrillyMilly]

I know what you mean but I think it's because female circumsion is, rightly, an illegal practice and referred to as what it is - genital mutilation. However male circumsion is quite accepted. While nowhere near as horrific the same reasons are given for both - religion, culture, cleanliness. Why is it acceptable for one? It should be unacceptable for all genital mutilation no matter the sex or degree of mutilation.

Another reason is I dont think a lot of people understand what fgm entails or the awful awful problems it can cause for the rest of the victims lives.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

I think you are right that many people don't understand what FGM entails and the problems it can cause. And although FGM is illegal many girls are taken out of the country every year for this to be performed abroad.

[KRITIQ]

I'm afraid it's a "what about the menz" stylie diversion from the subject at hand in most cases.

Start a discussion about women being raped? It takes longer to boil an egg than for someone to bring up that men get raped too (as if being concerned about women being raped means you think men being raped is fine,) or something about false accusations of rape.

Start a discussion about domestic abuse? Within a few steps, someone tries to turn the conversation to the "fact" that men are abused by women as often/more often than the other way round, or perhaps how women use false abuse claims to block their partner's access to children.

You know the drill.

[thenightsky]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

[antsypants]

It irritates me that people feel the need to even up the odds, I don't know one person who objects to FGM and accepts male circumcision, but this discussion is not merely about the act of circumcision, it is about the larger issue of the abuse of girls and women.

Why the need for derailment? The attempts at distraction don't diminish the valid points of the discussion.

I once had a discussion with a friend about hysterectomies and neutering women and was lectured because I hadn't made the point of objecting to the lack of counselling services for make partners.

Hey ho.

[Nyac]

It's the same way that any discussion about rape of women has to be derailed by "men get raped too" or "women lie about rape".

Or discussions of male violence against women have to be derailed by "but women are violent too".

It's an attempt to stop discussion of the main subject. It's a political move even if the people doing it aren't fully aware that's what they are doing.

[FrillyMilly]

Counselling for men when their partners have a hysterectomy? Why would that be necessary?

[Nyac]

Same way women are offered counselling when men have vasectomies I suppose.

Oh wait.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

And I have quite a few friends and relatives who have had hysterectomies. None of them have had counselling for their hysterectomies.

[margerykemp]

It's because we aren't meant to bother with things that affect only women. Because if it doesnt affect men it isn't important.

[FreudianSlipper]

because when men suffer dv or rape it is so much more humiliating for them

these words are from my mum a victim herself of dv for so many years

we are conditioned to be that way, or we have been. to change views we just have to keep highlighting the suffering of so many women and eventually i hope we shall be allowed to without the what about the poor menz line

i get so angry when a woman has been raped and we are reminded that many women lie about being raped its a totally different crime only one word connects both crimes

[Himalaya]

I dunno, it may be done to derail, but it may just be someone trying to think through the ethics of parents/a community being allowed to mutilate it's children's genitals and whether outsiders can challenge this.

Antsypants " I don't know one person who objects to FGM and accepts male circumcision" - that seems odd. I know tons of people who circumcised their boys for religious or cultural (American) reasons. I don't think any of them would endorse FGM, although I think some would not be too vocal precisely because they fear they'd be called out for hypocrisy/racism.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Himalaya - I know some people who are against FGM and not circumcision, you are right. And I do understand people getting annoyed at any hypocrisy. Its just a lot of the time I do think it is used to derail the subject being discussed. Not on MN, but on the wider internet, discussions and protests about FGM usually end up with loads of comments and debate about circumcision instead.

I think we should be able to discuss both. Just like on MN if someone starts talking about another issues that looks like it will derail the thread, then I correct those posters should then start another thread to discuss the issue. But I was just annoyed about this because FGM is such an awful practice and is an issue I think feminists as a whole and lots of other women, can get behind and campaign about.

[thechairmanmeow]

in terms of damage and general horridness i would never compare the two, but there is one inportant link that must be addressed if we want to tackle this , and that is the people in those parts of the world where FGM occurs see it as the same . boys are circumcised and girls are circumcised.

i agree male circumcision is another subject partly because it's a form of body-mutilation accepted as part of westen culture where FGM isnt. we all know FGM is wrong but some of us still extol the virtues of male circumsicion.

[WorriedBetty]

I think hitler was circumcised! Do I get the 'Hitler' points?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Yes Betty you do