First time in my working life I had to ask my manager to intervene because I was being browbeaten

[OrmIrian]

by another manager.

I had tried reason, humour, getting slightly irate, but finally had to resort to being blunt and speaking to my boss to explain why. He was demanding quite aggressively I give him a commitment to completing a project that I wasn't convinced was feasible or cost-effective. And he wouldn't accept that it wan't feasible.

I have usually found people respond to reasonable explanations and are prepared to compromise. I have though noticed that men in the corporate world seem to love their willy-waggling competition and I was more than happy to be excluded from them. But now I wonder, is it me being a wuss, or him being a dick?

I can't help the sneakig suspicion that he only backed off because a man got involved. And I don't like that thought...

[WidowWadman]

Do you reckon he only backed off because a man got involved or because another manager got involved? Do you think he would not have tried to press ahead with a project if you were a man?

In my experience in corporate environments women do not behave much different to men.

[OrmIrian]

I got the impression that he was enjoying goading me- as if it was a big joke. Perhaps a man would have dealt with him more abruptly earlier.

I am a techy - I do clever stuff behind the scenes. I rarely have to argue my case. Hence I'm not that good at it.

[WidowWadman]

Ok, that's off - and I guess it wouldn't help much if you could know for sure whether he'd treat a male techie the same. Chances are he would. Which still is prickish, but not as bad as if it is based on sexism.

However if he goaded you in a way that he implied you were less capable because you are a woman, that needs to be documented, and kicked up against.

[WidowWadman]

Oh, and you're not being a wuss, but he's being a prick. As long as you've done your complaint in a professional manner, you've done nothing wrong. And by pointing out that something is not cost-effective you've done the business a favour. That's certainly nothing to be ashamed off

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I wouldn't put it down to male/female. It's a seniority thing. Sometimes you have to go up the chain and wheel in the big guns to get your point across to someone more senior to you in the organisation or in a different organisation. As for him 'goading you'... bullying behaviour is all too common. Personally, I find men are less agressive with me than they are with male colleagues at a similar level. They appear to find it easier to swear and shout at a bloke than a woman. (Not knocking it) :)

[OrmIrian]

No shouting or swearing, just speaking forcefully and getting much to close to me to be comfortable. If he'd shouted or sworn I'd have just instantly dismissed him in my head and switched off. This was more unpleasant. Usually I would agree cogito - as I say I've seen willy-waggling contests amongst some men but so far I have been treated with politeness. Very odd. I feel quite discombobulated - as much because I had to ask someone else for support (specifically a man).

[OneHandFlapping]

Do you think it was because you are a woman, or because you are an IT tech? (You didn't actually say IT, I'm assuming here).

I have come across the "We've got to show these geeks in IT that they're not running the show" attitude. Together with "They're lazy arses in IT who always taking three times as long as is reasonable to get anything done. You need a strong manager to put them in their place."

[OrmIrian]

Yes, it's IT.

Maybe. Non-IT people do find it convenient to assume that everything is easy and should be acheivable yesterday and at no cost.

[WidowWadman]

What, do you mean that it's not possible to hack everything and anything within seconds if you need it? Does that mean that how they depict it in movies an books is not realistic? #crestfallen

[OrmIrian]

Sadly not widow

I am thinking in investing in some robes with sigils all over them, and a dry ice machine. If I can get non-IT people to think that some sort of woo and magic is involved I might get a bit more respect.....

[WidowWadman]

Ah, all you need is a dragon tattoo, and then all will be easy, and you can solve anything by just using google.

[TeiTetua]

There's nothing wrong with using your manager if someone tries to bully you. In fact a good manager would expect it. You can say "That's a great idea, but I can't agree to it here and now. We'll need to talk it over with [insert boss's name]."

And the manager, if s/he is worthy of the job, might go to the other person and say "You really ought to take up issues like this direct with me. It's not Orm's job to set up new projects, and this one looks pretty time-consuming."

What a manager is meant to do is evaluate the demands from customers, and allocate people's time to meet them. It's bad for everyone if outsiders come in making demands for work that hasn't been planned.

[HoleyGhost]

IME, bullies like that will try to browbeat anyone they see as beneath them - being unassertive, old, female, gay, junior, techie, scruffy or whatever is a marker to some knob ends that you should bow to them.

So a seniority thing but man/woman can come into that. It might be worth considering, with benefit of hindsight whether you could have handled him more assertively without being unprofessional yourself. Chances are that your instincts were correct and involving your manager was the most effective option available to you.