Anyone for golf?

[Camerondiazepam]

Golf is one of the most populate participation sports on the country. I was recently horrified to discover that the Open, the biggest golf event in the UK calendar, was played this year at a venue that doesn't admit women. Horrified because it's a huge sporting event, I watched big chunks of it on TV and this fairly huge fact didn't seem to be mentioned at all. How did that happen, and how did I not notice? Where were the protests? Because if I'd been aware at the time I absolutely would have been down there with my sandwich board and I've never been on a protest in my life.
(It was Royal St George's in Kent, FYI. In Sandwich. Where they invented the bloody boards)

Also a friend of MIL recently went with her husband to enrol on a golfing weekend and was told at the desk that she'd gone in through the wrong (ie men's door) and would, basically, have to come in through the tradesman's in future. How is that still happening and why are there no pickets and protests about it?

Lots and lots of women play golf. I don't play golf but all my DP's family do and I'm fascinated to hear what you think about this stuff - how is it still going on and why is nobody kicking up a stink about it?

[DeliriousTante]

We were on a public footpath that went through a golf course a few weeks ago. They are full of silly rules like dress codes and stuff. I can't believe there are still places that don't allow women. What is their possible justification?

[carpetmistress]

lol sgm. Real women shouldn't go to women only gyms then

[MrsClown]

What the hell have women only gyms got to to with golf clubs. I was a member of a women's only gym once and the reason they gave was safety and the fact that some women find men intimidating. I wonder why!!!!!!

[Camerondiazepam]

The thing I find so extraordinary about the Open situation is that this is a major, major sporting event (think Wimbledon for importance in the calendar) and yet there was no outcry or, seemingly, press mention of it at all. And I know golf doesn't exactly have a great history of being inclusive but you'd think someone, somewhere in the media would have thought "hang on, that's a story". They would have done if they'd played it at an all-white club, surely? So why is it ok for the sporting establishment to support oppression of women? Why is no-one writing about this?

[carpetmistress]

because equality is two way. Abolish women only gyms then golf clubs should admit women

[Camerondiazepam]

Really? There's something about that which sits really badly with me. I think it's oversimplifying the issue, maybe, not sure it's reasonable to conflate the two but I do kind of see your point.
and why do we have to give in first anyway?

[MrsClown]

Carpetmistress, it amazes me how women will stick up for men's rights in a heart beat but wont complain about things like this golf issue and bring another issue in. Rather like when we complain about lads mags they say what about the Heat magazine hunk of the week! I hardly think the 2 equate. I havent seen any nearly naked men on the front of Heat!

I could reel off a few things who only admit men - WORKING MEN'S CLUBS (many of these do not allow women full membership) for one.

The gym thing was definitely a safety issue. They also arranged escorts to women's cars if women felt unsafe at night!

[OneHandFlapping]

Actually CarpetMistress, I think it HAS to be the other way round. Abolish bastions of male supremacy and stop men behaving in a sexually aggressive manner, THEN perhaps women won't have to take refuge in women only gyms (not that I've ver seen one).

[KRITIQ]

Excellent explanation OneHandFlapping. Why focus on the tiny female-only centres rather than challenging the larger, more influential male-only spaces?

Yes, there are a few women-only spaces, like women's refuges, women's toilets, women's gyms, women's changing rooms and occasionally still a few women's centres. But, there are far more men-only spaces whether by default or explicitly so. And, these tend to be much larger, high-status places where important decisions and activities take place. In this case, the highest level of Golf, and I believe it is similar for Cricket as well. Sorry, but you can't compare that these with small local gyms. It just isn't the same.

[carpetmistress]

golf being important and high status? Okayyy

[SinicalSal]

don't you think so carpetmistress? granted it's not as high status as the queen - the queen is a woman - hey that must mean feminism shouldn't exist ! wow you've won me over

[Tigresswoods]

Did you know that it's a well known fact is golfing circles that golf stands for
Gentlemen
Only
Ladies
Forbidden

There's lots of crap sexism in golf, we lady holders just ignore it. In fact at most clubs there is a "lady's day" once a week where men are forbidden so we have huge double standards.

[Tigresswoods]

"lady golfers"

[Camerondiazepam]

You seem pretty happy with it all Tigresswoods. Daily sexist gripes aside, weren't you troubled at all by an event as high profile as the Open being played at a club that doesn't even allow women members?

KRITIQ I think you're talking about membership of the MCC ie Lords, and they started allowing women in 1999, so hardly in the vanguard of sporting equality but they are there now.

[Tigresswoods]

Not at all, it's just history.

I can see why it would upset some but I never really considered it.

I have to say day to day in golfing circles ladies (as we are always referred to as) don't have a gripe about sexism in the sport.

Overall I'd say it's men who do really. They have far stricter rules on dress and don't seem to enjoy the social side as much as the girls.

Golf is great

[SardineQueen]

Were women allowed in to watch the Open?

[ZZZenAgain]

wasn't aware of tbh. It is strange.

[msrisotto]

"It's just history" And shouldn't we move on from it?? There's a lot of oppression in history. Thankfully a lot of those things are illegal now. Not all though, obviously!

[messyisthenewtidy]

carpet is making me chuckle today.

women only gyms = men only golf clubs

Lol.. I didn't realize the reason women weren't allowed in golf clubs was because some of them might be ogling the men in their pringle jumpers.

And golf not high status? Tell that to Tiger Woods..

As for Ladies Day - nice pat on the head to stop us moaning...

[carpetmistress]

some men always ogle women. A special gym should't be needed any more than special streets for women to walk down

go enjoy ladies day messy

[SardineQueen]

Golf is very important in my industry.
It is where people get together and make decisions.
Bond over talking about it and where they play.
Corporate events are usually golf related.
If you don't play golf it makes it much harder to obtain advancement.
It is important.
HTH.

[SardineQueen]

And far less women play golf.
So don't get the business / entertainment / promotions.
Yes definitely important.

Silly game though I don't play it myself.

[Camerondiazepam]

Did a bit of googling last night to double check my DH hadn't got it wrong and it seems there was a bit of press about it at the time, including an article in the Telegraph by Germaine Greer saying it's nothing to be bothered about and that sport is always unequal. I agree with what she says about equal pay in tennis, I think that is unfair to the men as women don't play 5 sets, not so sure about some of the rest of it. The Independent article is quite interesting about what happened in Augusta, where there was quite a bit of agitation and questions asked of the sponsors (as SGM said, these people need hitting in the pockets really).

www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/open-except-to-any-woman-wanting-to-be-a-member-is-it-time-for-the-royal-and-ancient-to-become-less-so-587110.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/8640690/If-men-want-to-play-men-only-games-let-them.html

To clarify, women can play at Royal St Georges as guest of a member but they are not allowed to be members themselves. So basically they will take our money for the rounds but we can't contribute to any decisions and we can't play at the weekend (because that is when the men members play).

The Open in 2013 is again going to be played at a club that doesn't allow women members, Muirfield in East Lothian. Might start writing some letters to some sponsors a bit nearer the time.