Feminism in the 21st century(66 Posts)
Very interesting read, I enjoyed that, need to add to my shopping list yet again.
"Female sexuality needs women to talk about sex, intelligently, out loud and in public (not just on Mumsnet) or it will forever remain a source of shame."
Since when is talking on mumsnet, only discussing things in private?
I see mumsnet as 'consciousness raising' 2.0 and infinitely more powerful because of the scale on which experiences can be shared and validated. How more public is the woman, who is not a journalist in national paper, meant to be?
I'm looking out for Walby's book - that sounded interesting to me.
Great minds, Lenin.
The linking between sex culture and neolib is something that's been bubbling away in my mind.
(I mean great minds as in the same part of the article, not as in I taught Walby all she knows )
But having them here gives validation in the outside world. And I think she's underplaying the role of online conversation. They aren't private. If the conversations were just being had on say UK feminista where you are already a community of interest I'd agree. But not somewhere as broad as MN.
True forums are public, but many of the conversations I have here I am not having elsewhere. There are few spaces for that.
I do also think there is nowhere near enough discussion/ articulation of what an authentic (ie not the prevalent commercialised version) female sexuality looks like, which impacts on many levels.
Interesting piece and it actually makes me want to go and read CM's book though I have always found her irritating in the past.
I read it as "in public" as MN is public ie even more in public at every opportunity
I really enjoyed Zoe Williams' reviews - they did indeed touch on a number of the main tenets and issues bound up in modern feminism.
Sylvia Walby's book looks very interesting, I must say. And Caitlin Moran's a lot of fun, although I suspect her brash, columnist style means some of her observations are likely to stir up irritation as well as epiphanies. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Rachel Cusk's book sounds like it's written by someone with a lot of bruised emotions that need time to heal. Coruscating stuff.
Going back to Caitlin Moran, her observation When did feminism become confused with Buddhism? clearly needs to be trotted out next time someone gets cross because another poster is disagreeing rather too (ahem) vehemently with them and therefore being accused of being "unsisterly".
That said, I'm more of a nicemonger myself.
Oh yeh IC! I liked that too. I think Caitlin's been lurking
Where did you pre-order the Walby book from Proles? I couldn't find it so assumed it wasn't out yet.
It's a great example of patriarchy at work. I totally and utterly bought into what the meeja said about mumsnet. Felt like an idiot when I saw the reality and realised what a neat way that was of shutting down women's voices. I think that aspect of MN's evolution is a strength though. It's been trivialised so below the radar, and so it is now it has been left alone to grow too big for the patriarchy to make too much of a dent when it tries to re appropriate it. Maybe.
Ta for the PDF.
I really can't find it on Amazon, why oh why? <throws laptop on floor>
'The only payment for 'help' is 'gratitude' '
That's one to mull over while doing the dishes...
Yes, Mumsnet is dangerous because it enables women to talk to each other. Without all the socially-imposed niceties and little lies that exist when meeting in RL. Internet anonymity means we can be more honest than many of us feel comfortable with in RL situations.
So the usual thing - belittling and/or saying it's unpleasant to try and undermine its importance. Funny, that.
That quote struck me too, SinicalSal.
Being beholden to someone.
Maybe we should replace "gratitude" with "appreciation".... I dunno.
I was interested to see a thread on "Feminism in the 21st century" as from a young age I've identified as a feminist ( though I've probably forgotten about it too much in the busyness of life ) - anyhow I think it should be something for everyone.
But I was disappointed, and felt a bit left out, when I couldn't follow the Walby quote (in spite of being a fairly well educated person)
You talk about the importance of "consciousness raising" but where is the encouragement and education for those just beginning to explore these vital issues in all our lives ?
Perhaps someone could suggest some books for those of us who might not be able to follow Walby et al.( at least not without some support ) ?
Or maybe someone could explain some of the terms used in it, such as "neo-liberalism" etc.
Could you interpret this quote for us LeninGrad and explain what it is you like about it. Why is it "bingo" ? - it made no sense to me !
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