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Moral Maze radio four tonight: Equality and merit

(46 Posts)
TheFeministParent Wed 08-Dec-10 17:35:01

Examining new proposals for positive discrimination. 8pm, I think.

sethstarkaddersmum Wed 08-Dec-10 18:51:35

suspect it will have that woman from the Institute of Ideas on it and result in feminist enragement....

EatingAngelPie Wed 08-Dec-10 18:56:59

interesting nws on the narrowing of the pay gap though. i wonder what the main driver of that is...

claig Wed 08-Dec-10 19:04:15

Excellent thanks for that. I must admit that I do often find myself in agreement with Claire Fox, even though she used to be a Marxist and may still be one, I'm not sure.
Should be interesting.

claig Wed 08-Dec-10 20:04:40

oh God, Matthew Taylor, rarely agree with him

HerBeatitude Wed 08-Dec-10 20:06:48

On now

claig Wed 08-Dec-10 20:16:39

Taylor is wrong. Employer can choose, but shouldn't be forced to choose.

claig Wed 08-Dec-10 20:36:32

Taylor and Portillo have changed the argument. Everybody agrees that there should be no discrimination. The argument is about positive discrimination.

claig Wed 08-Dec-10 20:41:16

Agree with Melanie. They scrapped grammars and destroyed the chances of the poor. They dumbed down education.

claig Wed 08-Dec-10 20:44:50

Claire Fox for Prime Minister. She is formidable.

TheFeministParent Thu 09-Dec-10 09:42:06

Bugger, after my initial excitement bedtime went wrong and found myself pacifying a small child with nightmares.....will listen again!!

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 10:24:09

How thick am I that I have never heard of the RSA?

It's only been on 2 minutes and I am already pissed off by Claire Fox. These proposals are about using positive discrimination only if two candidates are equally good, qualified etc - now she's going on as if the idea is to promote women even if they've spent their whole lives living in a bin and reading the Dandy.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 10:29:19

Claire Fox really is a - and I use this word advisedly - knob.

"Women choose to have families" ALL BY THEMSELVES, APPARENTLY.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 10:31:49

oops - that might have been Melanie thing actually.

TheFeministParent Thu 09-Dec-10 10:46:15


ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 10:54:07

Just that old cliche about women choosing to be underpaid when they choose to have families.

Whereas of course, men don't have families. hmm

OMG at Michael Portillo defending positive discrimination.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 10:54:41

(sorry TFP - she didn't say "men don't have families", but it's always the implication that only women can have them. )

TheFeministParent Thu 09-Dec-10 10:55:58

I quite like Michael....lately!

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 11:03:03

That "excessive legislation" guy is doing a pisspoor job IMO, with - is it Matthew Tayloe - taking him to pieces.

and LOL




at the idea that it's equality campaigners who are the ones who make an issue of race/gender!

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 11:05:43

None of the "anti" side are able to bring themselves to say it's wrong to employ a male teacher over a female one, I notice.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Dec-10 11:09:06

Notice they've taken on the usual "rape trial" tactic of using women to defend male privilege.

Prolesworth Thu 09-Dec-10 11:10:02

Message withdrawn

claig Thu 09-Dec-10 11:34:01

The lawyer at the beginning wasn't any good. Claire ran rings around him. Then Linda Bellos didn't stand up for any positive discrimination stuff at all, but agreed With Claire on mist everything. Bellos's case seemed to rest on flipping a coin, and that some executives are not hired because they are not good golf players and that a surgeon preferred to hire people who shared his taste in classical music. But in the real world of business, this is not the norm. Her examples are such outliers as to be practically irrelevant.

TheFeministParent Thu 09-Dec-10 11:37:57

It's like Helena Kennedy says about pinning the badge on someone just like you.....he (white middle class suit) reminds me of myself and so he'll be great!

claig Thu 09-Dec-10 11:42:37

Agree that people do tend to hire people like themselves and who they get on with. But she said that working class men don't get on the board because they may not be good golfers. Modern corporations don't work like that. It is a competitive world and companies compete internationally. It's not about golf in most corporations.

But I was very surprised that Bellos was not in favour of positive discrimination. She even said that if two candidates were equal, thne she would flip a coin.

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