Thinking of buying a pony - advice needed

[mumontherun14]

Hi. I have posted on here before my DD is a very keen rider (she is nearly 12) and has been helping/working at local riding school 4 days a week ( 2 days after school and both days at weekend) for past 3 years in all seasons/weathers. She started with lessons , then pony loan looking after a few horses and for past 6 months she has been doing a 1 to1 loan with one pony but is also still getting lessons.

Now she has fallen head over heels for this particular pony.

She has been riding him for a year or so and has been gradually doing more and more with him but is still restricted by the loan in that she can only take him when the riding stable staff say she can and when she is finished other chores etc and she is itching to to more with him. She has asked me many many times about buying him. He is 13 and a Welsh section B chestnut gelding and was born at the stables and his mother is still there. So he is owned by the riding school. He is 13.2 and was ridden and jumped by the daughter of the riding school owner when he was younger but he was then put out in the field for a good while before DD started with him. He seems a lovely natured pony and she has recently ridden him in their first jumping competition with no problems. He can be a bit nervy at times with noise but defeintly seems to be coming on and they say he has a lot of trust in her and she is the only one who rides him so I can see myself they are developing a strong bond. I am thinking of speaking to the riding school owner to see if they would consider selling him to her. I think they possibly would. We are paying around £200 a month just now for the loan and I know it would probably escalate to £350-£400 plus the cost to buy him which we would be able (just about) to afford. Any advice or questions I should ask when speaking to the riding school owner? I rode a bit as a child but nowhere near as much as DD and just feel a bit inexperienced.

She could continue to keep him there on part livery I think with hay/feed included and they would help with him the days she wasn't there or on holiday. From what I have read I think I should get him vet checked and I know he doesn't have shoes at the moment so would need to speak to them about that. Anything else to think about? I know she is still young but she is definitely very dedicated and has 2 very good friends there, one who has 3 ponies so I can see her sticking with it for a good while Thanks xxx

[lapetitesiren]

I'm not an expert at all but just wondered if you increased the amount you pay to loan him she could get unrestricted access to him without you having all the responsibility and hidden costs. Then if she outgrows him or her priorities change, or he gets an injury or illness, your options are less dramatic. If she's particularly good he might not meet her needs a couple of years down the line. Just an idea. I'll shuffle away now so you can get the answers to your questions.

[mumontherun14]

Aww thank you! I could certainly ask about that - they know how devoted she is to him and I think they are letting her gradually do more and more with him and it is supervised which is great and she is just impatient to do more. She is also worried that he would perhaps be sold at some point but I really doubt they would do that without speaking to us first. I do also have the fear of expensive vets bills/injuries etc as we might struggle with that.

[mothertominibeasts]

As an owner of two (ex racer and Shetland) for the last 25 years I can say ownership is very different to loaning. Your daughter is young and she will outgrow him surprisingly quickly.

Before you jump in and buy I would be inclined to offer to take him on full loan, assisted DIY. That way she will have first hand experience of both sides of horse ownership, the fun side and the not so fun jobs in all weathers.

I may come across as a bit mean, but when I was her age it wasn't made easy like it is nowadays.

[mothertominibeasts]

To add, I'm sure you will have him insured but vet bills are part and parcel. They crop up unexpectedly. Then there is yearly teeth, jabs, physio, worming etc. That's all in addition to.

[mumontherun14]

Thanks - just trying to do a bit of research so we don't "jump in". And she is a real wee grafter she will cheerfully muck out all day, groom, change haynets, do feed, pick out hooves she is defeintly doing her fair share of chores and in all weathers hail, rain, snow ice etc xxx

[lastqueenofscotland]

Do not under estimate the expense of feed, rugs, shoes, the fucking vet, getting a new saddle cause they’ve changed shape and the old one no longer fits etc.

[ChoudeBruxelles]

How tall is your dd? 13.2 is not very big for a 12 year old(well the ones I know) Will she outgrow it very soon?

[mumontherun14]

Thanks. She is about 5ft 1 just now and quite petite. I spoke to her about this last night and she was saying the riding school owners daughter still sometimes rides him and she is in her twenties and about 5 ft 5. He is quite a sturdy pony. I think if in the future she did outgrow him and she had been working with him for a few years they would maybe buy him back from us for the school. I am already providing shavings for his bed, headcollars, lead ropes saddle pads etc so I know a bit about how expensive all the kit is. He already has a saddle & bridle. I am going to see the riding school owner later this afternoon when I pick her up . She may not even want to sell him so might all come to nothing! Xxx

[britnay]

er, I'm 34 and my pony is 13hh, so she won't necessarily outgrow him height or weight wise...

[mumontherun14]

Thanks! So I spoke to owner today and she said she has no plans to sell him to anyone apart from us! She said we could have assisted livery for the same price we are paying for the pony loan. And they would look after him the days DD couldn't come. I said we'd think about it and she and her daughter could think about it but looks like it might be possible. Thanks for the advice xxx

[maxelly]

Ooh all very exciting, there's nothing like your first pony. To put a sensible hat on briefly though...

Full loan would indeed be much less risky for you in terms of possible injuries or your daughter outgrowing him or losing interest (as you could always send him back to his owner) but for that reason I would be surprised if the school agreed to it - what would be the benefit to them - they would retain all the risk of the pony going wrong without either getting his value in cash or the use of him in the school. Sorry if that sounds harsh but riding schools are businesses at the end of the day and it's hard enough to squeeze a profit out of them without doing kind things purely for the benefit of clients!

I would also be a bit anxious about how he will react to a change of routine - I have seen many non-horsey parents buy their DCs favourite and quiet/suitable for a novice riding school pony for them and then 'give them a nicer life' with much less work, more feed and more coddling/less competent handling - only for the pony to very swiftly forget its manners and start being a nightmare for the novice DC... not trying to alarm you and you do say he's not being used by the school much so it may not be that drastic a change for him, depending on how hard your DD plans to work him. But just remember that this pony will be used to a certain routine and management and your DD may not know what to do if he starts to play up. Make sure she has access to adult help regularly (I would insist on regular lessons - don't count on adults around the yard just helping her, they may or may not but there's no substitute for consistent training for both pony and child!). Or ideally see if the riding school would keep him on working livery for at least the first 6 months - this is a mutually beneficial arrangement where the school use the pony in a certain numbers of lessons per week in exchange for a discount on the livery. You would still be 'in charge' and your DD have first call on him but he would be under an instructors eye regularly and get a little more exercise than your DD will be able to give him...

I would also make sure (as you are not horsey yourself) that you don't get blind-sided by your DD's love for the pony and get taken for a ride on the price/suitability of him. I am naturally very very cynical so don't take this the wrong way (there may be a perfectly good explanation!) but I do wonder why a young, nice-natured and sound pony has been kept by the owner sitting around in a field and not used much by the school - see above my point about them being a business, most stables would have moved him on by now if not suitable for their purpose and they do seem unusually keen for her to have him. If it's as simple as he's really quite spooky/green and not a novice ride that's fine but he should then be priced accordingly. Do you have any horsey friends or acquaintances independent of the stables/owner who could come take a look and advise on what he's worth? And yes, get him vetted (by an independent vet, not whoever the stables normally use) - three stage as a minimum or five stage ideally).

Other practical questions - you need to be clear what their assisted livery package covers as every establishment has their own rules - e.g. will they bring in an hold for the farrier/vet/dentist/saddler/back person or are you expected to do that? What is the worming regime and who is responsible for administering it? Can he live out at grass 24/7 year round or is there compulsory stabling for part of the year - and if so are there extra charges for hay/bedding/feed? Will they include his tack in the sale price or will you need to pay extra/buy new? What are the rules about supervision of the DC on the yard? As it's a riding school as well as the livery yard what are the rules about who takes priority for use of the school (esp in winter) - owners or lessons? There are probably more but I can't think of them atm!

Any further questions do ask, people on this board are very knowledgeable and I'm sure you'll get good advice...

[mumontherun14]

Hi Maxelly thanks so much for all that info -definetly good to think about.

The pony is owned by the riding school owner. She has about 40 horses. 10 or so hers/her daughter & sons, 8 are used in the school and the rest are on livery and privately owned - This pony my DD has been paired with on what I would call a supervised loan for the past year and he was born at the school, his mother is still there and he has been there all his life. I think you would class him as a bit green/spooky at times as he was ridden more when he was younger by the daughter of the owner, then put out int the fields for a while as the daughter was working, then brought back in. But my DD been working with him 1 to 1 for a year and he is defeintly improving. She just wants to keep working with him and bring him on and have a bit more freedom to ride him when she would like to rather than just in the group lessons.

I do have a very experienced friend at work who has had 3 of her own horses and her and her daughters have all competed and she has given me a lot of advice so I can speak to her and get her out to see him. Price wise the riding school owner said £1500 which was actually a bit less than I was expecting.

Routine wise he would stay in pretty much the same routine. Same stable, my DD still coming 4 days a week and the other days he would be looked after by the daughter of the school owner in the same way happens at the moment. The only thing that would change is that my DD could take him out a bit more than normal. She could also take him to the local show and she has been practicing in-hand with him and jumping at different heights and she would be happy just to do more of that.

The school owner said she defeintly should still keep up her lessons and I defeintly agree with that. She has also said her daughter would continue to help my DD as she is very fond of the pony as well and has been working with my DD already with him.

Re your point about it being a business -it defeintly is but I get the impression that it is more of a farm set up with the riding school as a secondary income. The owner has often rescued ponies and has a bit of a soft heart at times I think.

They have said his tack would be included in the sale price and his hay/bedding/feed would be included in the assisted livery cost which will be 200 per month/50 a week and is the same cost as I am paying now for the pony loan. On top of that would be her lessons and the livery costs would increase to 70 per week if she is off on holiday.

We are still thinking it over. We would need a few months to come up with the money and the owner says there is no rush at all.

I am going to contact a vet and look at insurance costs etc - still really researching it all at the moment

Thanks!

[maxelly]

Well that seems really positive - £1500 is a quite reasonable price if he's as described and if it includes tack, so that would give hope they're not trying to rip you off! I also think £200 p/month for assisted livery is a bit of a steal (or it would be in the SE where I am anyway!).

The other thing that did occur to me, and particularly as you're not in a rush, is that it might be worth finding time to have a grown-up chat with your DD about what a commitment this pony will be for her and the family, and how she is feeling about managing that. I know you say she's been loaning him for a year already so it's not as if she hasn't shown commitment, but she's of an age where her school/academic/homework commitments are only going to increase (she's presumably just started secondary school, GCSEs in a few years?). She will need to balance riding with any other hobbies she has, and also having a social life which is important for a teenager! She's old enough to understand that looking after the pony is a non negotiable, but also that you don't get much of a second chance on exam results and so it's really important she dedicates enough time to study too...

Don't listen to people that tell you that teenagers can't manage having their own horse, or that they all lose interest when they get into boys (not true!) but it is hard for them and it takes a lot of dedication to get yourself to the stables after school day in, day out, when you have exams, friends, a Saturday job etc etc to manage too, and particularly over winter when it's dark and cold... I'd say it's just worth taking this time to make sure you and she are going into it with eyes open and some coping strategies developed (e.g perhaps other hobbies could be reduced if she finds she struggles, or budget to buy in additional help with the pony over winter)!

[mumontherun14]

Thanks - again good food for thought.

She eats, sleeps breathes and lives for riding and the ponies and has done so for past few years so other hobbies have already gone by the wayside. She has one good friend from school at the stables and 3 other good friends from other schools and one is a very close friend there so it has become her social circle and they are a good bunch together so I think they'll all be there for a few years yet.

School can sometimes be stressful for her she has just started secondary is young for her year and the friends circle has shifted in the new classes so I know she looks forward to her time at the stables and has hardly ever missed it only if she is ill.

She is a real animal lover, she has a rescue dog and a guinea pig and she is good at looking after them.

I know a bit about the homework/commitment as my son in 3rd year at high school and he plays football with a professional team so he has to carefully manage his time as well. Though he hasn't started full on exams & revision yet. I think because they know us quite well at the school they would help us over the exam months.

I could see her having some kind of career with animals it is definitely what makes her happy.

I was saying to her that in the future if she outgrew him the riding school owner would buy him back from us and she looked at me in horror and said but Mum I would never want to sell him I will keep him and look after him (by that meaning she would get another horse to ride at that point as well as him!!!).

200 does seem cheapish. We are in Scotland and it is more of a farm set up rather than a professional livery yard but I think for our purposes and for what DD is looking for it could suit her well xxx

[Ajrsenzu]

OP I was that pony mad 12 year old many years ago. If your daughter is happy to slog away in all seasons doing hard jobs as you say, and you are financially able to support her passion, then buy her that pony - it will be the best thing you ever do. The only thing I would say is make sure you are also prepared to run her to and from the stables several times a week, as my poor father spent several years ferrying me to and from the stables nearly every day of the week until I was old enough to drive myself.

I had a pony throughout my school years/college years and I even took him to university with me. He was a brilliant outlet for the pressures of education, friendship and general teenage years. He taught me about commitment, hard work, selflessness, determination and how to balance academia and life, as I attended to him every day (on DIY livery). I am now in my late 20s and a lawyer, so having a horse absolutely doesn't have to interfere with your studies or work. I still have a horse now ;) albeit on full livery.

One thing I would add is please make sure your daughter is shown how to do manual work correctly - I have slipped discs and recurrent back pain due to years and years of casually moving heavy hay and straw bales around, bending down rather than squatting and dragging heavy items incorrectly/generally thinking my back was invincible. I would urge anyone who plans to do several years worth of horse caring to take more care of their back than I did, as I'm paying for it now!