Teachers in Ireland- tell me what hours you work?!

[user1483390742]

Primary in England here. I work non-stop in term time. In at 7.30am, leave at 5.30, then a couple of hours most evenings and 3+ hours at the weekend. It's killing me!
I have read a few threads before where Irish teachers have said they get in at 8.30 and leave by 4pm latest! Is this true? Should i move over there? How can we have it so wrong here?

[FlyMeOverBarrysTea]

Yes- sensible approach to the use of textbooks and workbooks, very strong curriculum and general respect for education goes a long way.

However.... you need to be able to teach Irish and you need to have your Catholic cert to teach in a maintained school. It’s extremely hard to get a permanent job even with the above!

You should maybe consider Scotland. You don’t need Gaelic and there are more non denominational schools. The curriculum is not as strong as Ireland’s but it’s not half as stressful as England. Teachers in Scotland are about to go on strike so pay and conditions can only get better. HTH.

[Pangur2]

I don't understand why England is so against text books. Everyone is constantly reinventing the wheel. Is it because they change the curriculum so often? Everyone is always amazed when I tell them how long Soundings was used for Leaving Cert English, haha!

[junebirthdaygirl]

Yes in Primary in lreland. Usually arrive at 8.20 to begin teaching at 9am. Children leave at 2.45 and l am usually going at 4. I would have longer days periodically just to do a lot of paperwork but nothing horrendous. I don't bring work home. During the holidays l do no work until the final week when l make a mad burst and get it all done. I have had a very successful career and am considered pretty good at the job.
My friends in Secondary however have a lot of corrections at night and l'm sure some Primary teachers do too.
When l read what ye do it sounds madness and there is such a danger of turning people off what l consider to be a fabulous job.

[HollowTalk]

I used to think that about textbooks in sixth form - ours wanted the teachers to basically rewrite the textbook and wouldn't pay for books for students (in a very, very poor area.)

[Youmadorwhat]

Yes. I arrive somewhere between 8.30-8.45 and leave at approx 3.30/3.40 although on Friday’s it’s earlier. I don’t tend to take work home much really. Like PP odd days here and there where there’s some paperwork to do but it’s nothing stressful.

[comebacksoonsusan]

Why can't England do this?!
Love textbooks too. When used well they are excellent.

[seething1234]

And don't forget to take into account the very long summer holidays.. our school is finishing up 21st June!

[Chocolatepeanuts]

What about NI OP?

[user1483390742]

June- you're right. Expectations of teachers here are utter madness and many good ones are leaving in droves. Your job sounds enjoyable and manageable and how it should be - i am so jealous! I love being in the class, but it will be all the extra unnecessary hours that will drive me out of teaching! ( or moving to Ireland!)

[Balonder]

I arrived today at 8.45, class starts at 9.20, kids home at 3, I left at 3.30 (usually out by 4) We have a staff meeting once a fortnight and get out before 6 those days, often by 5. I work as a substitute and have work every day, usually block booked for weeks at a time. Building up my panel rights for a permanent job. Special Class teachers don't use Irish so not sure you need it to register as one

[Rulesrulesrules]

Yes as someone who works in Ireland now and worked/trained in the uk! (I’m from Ireland) they are two different worlds!! Teaching here is a DREAM!! And the pay is MILES better! I would cry if I had to go back to the uk!!

[user1483390742]

Rules- that sounds like a dream and all I could want! It's not fair! My kids are at school here so probably unrealistic to expect to move!

[Ringsblings]

@user1483390742 it makes me sad for teachers in the uk! My job makes me smile and when I was in the uk I was so anxious all the time! I hated getting up for work!! That’s not right!! When I came back to Ireland I assumed that I would feel the same here...but oh my god was I wrong!! Much better work/life balance here!!If you are willing to do Irish then it’s possible!??

[user1483390742]

I can speak Irish! Lived there for 15 years! Don't think i could ask my (English born) teens to uproot!

[HollowTalk]

Why not, though, OP? They'll live in Europe, after all - surely that would be great for them rather than post-Brexit Britain?

[Focalpoint]

Hi -
I'm a parent of primary school children in Ireland. Many of the things I read on here about England are so different to our experience here (eg SATS pressure, complicated sounding English grammar, no holidays in school time, starting at 4).

I was just wondering if teachers with experience of both think that English kids come out ahead academically or are they just different approaches that get broadly the same results)

[Holidayshopping]

That job sounds just amazing-I can’t believe how different things are.

Education has gone very badly wrong in England.

[Rulesrulesrules]

@Focalpoint no on a whole if I’m being honest I think Irish teens come out ahead somewhat. I think the Irish system in secondary leads to a broader education. Also the attitude to education here is much different for teens on the most part. The Irish education system takes things at a slower pace from the beginning which actually builds better foundations imo. If you were to compare say a 5yr in uk to a 5yr old in Ireland then the uk seem ahead but they put A LOT into them in the reception year whereas we spread it out over the junior and senior infant years. I could go on forever about what I find different between them. But I have always preferred the Irish system if I am being honest...it seems more solid!imo!

[user1483390742]

Holiday- i assume you are teaching in England too? Our job is s**t! Exhausted teachers and kids no better off.

Focalpoint- i think even with the long holidays the outcome is roughly the same. Irish kids and teachers are less stressed.

The UK has messed up badly!

[Focalpoint]

Thanks - that's good to hear. I'm glad you are both enjoying your jobs as happy less stressed teachers is bound to be better for the kids.

[Holidayshopping]

I am, yes. 20 years in and thoroughly miserable!

[BaronessBlonde]

[Kokeshi123]

TL:DR

Ireland is quite a high-performing country in education. It outscores the UK in most international tests (yet gets surprisingly little attention when education is discussed).

I too don't get the resistance to textbooks in England, Scotland and Wales.

My experience of sending my child to school in a (also high-performing) system that uses textbooks is:

It is easy for parents to see what children are doing at school, what they have covered previously and what is coming up next. So you can help effectively at home (it is especially helpful if you speak another language at home and your child sometimes misses things in the classroom). It also makes it easier to revise stuff learned previously or introduce content that will come up later in the course, so that children can practice content several times (very very important for retention--"spaced practice").

It (provided the textbooks are decent quality) ensures that all schools cover similar contents and means that stuff can be taught systematically, building on what has been learned before. So you do not wind up with a teacher trying to teach a "topic" on the Caribbean, and then discovering that his/her lesson is not working because half the kids have never been taught maps/compass points or don't know the names of the continents etc. This helps children learn more efficiently and makes things easier for teachers. It also means that children who switch schools don't end up (say) "doing" the Fire of London twice in a row and never covering Ancient Mesopotamia etc.

If you look at England (leaving aside Scotland and Wales for the moment), English primary schools actually do well in international assessment--look at TIMSS and PIRLS. But then in PISA we sink down to mediocre. Something seems to be going wrong in Key Stage 3 in English education. I think part of the issue is the lack of a good foundation in the foundation subjects at primary, and the fact that kids come in from primary schools all having studied a variety of different bits and pieces which keeps changing year by year. It is going to be very very hard for KS3 teachers to plan a good curriculum or teach effective lessons which the students can understand and feel interested in, in such circumstances. Having content which is unified across the curriculum would surely help this. There could be a proper KS3 curriculum that leads on from a unified primary curriculum in a systematic way.

Finally, use of textbooks increases equity in the curriculum IMO. It worries me when I hear vague comments about a school choosing a curriculum that is "relevant to our particular students' interests etc. etc."--in practice, I think this tends to mean that schools in lower socio-economic districts wind up teaching a less challenging and academic curriculum, which ultimately is not in the kids' favor.

It greatly reduces workload for teachers (not in Japan, but that is because the Japanese system wastes teachers' time with other stuffthey spend little time on lesson planning or making stuff from scratch). One consequence is that teachers have more time to spend working one-on-one with struggling pupils or even just if a child has not understood one particular thing or lesson. My daughter had some issues when she started due to language barriers and being the youngest in her class, and I deeply appreciated the way her teacher was able to sit with her and spend time going through stuff she struggled with. She really benefited from her teacher having the chance to do this. I am sure UK teachers would love to do more of this toobut they probably don't have the time. In countries that don't use textbooks, it seems to be common to employ lots of TAs who tend to work with the struggling students. However, the quality of TAs does vary a lot and some TAs are less qualified than actual teachers. You really want the MOST qualified people to be working with weaker students, IMO.

Expense-wise---it does cost money, but probably saves in the long-run. I think the trick is to make sure that textbooks are reasonably concise, not massive doorstops. A trained teacher can use a textbooks as a starting point and expand its contents as he or she wishes.

Use of textbooks does make for heavy school bags though!

[junebirthdaygirl]

In my experience, after more than 30 years teaching in lreland, children who arrive to us from the UK are behind in most areas.
In lreland subjects like history and geography are taught right up to 18 years so more people have a broader education going forward in life.
When lrish people go for eg to Australia there is a huge respect for their level of education after college.
A huge proportion of students go to third level and there is a big emphasis on education in most families. Ireland fought its way out of poverty through education so its a big priority for most families. This makes it easier for teachers.
I have made the mistake of encouraging people l know to go into teaching in the UK based on my own experience of being a teacher here only for them to hate it and be totally overwhelmed.

[Deadringer]

I am not a teacher but I have childminded for 3 teachers and none of them started before 8.30 or finished after 3.30 except on a rare occasion. Meetings seem to be once a month on average and only until about 4, 4.30 at the latest. As a parent I would say that education is very important to Irish parents and in general we have huge respect for teachers and in the main have great trust in them. The rules around starting age and term time holidays are quite relaxed which has the knock on effect that stress and pressure are reduced for both parents and teachers.