How can I help daughter who is desperate about her nervous dog

[Jjjayfee]

I was hoping for some advice. My daughter has a miniature schnauzer which she got at 5 months. The previous owner had an autistic child which was,she said, why she was selling the pup as she was hoping her child would have bonded with the pup but it hadn't worked out. My daughter and her partner have had the dog for about 8 months. They live in a flat with a garden. The dog barks at any outside noise, flickering shadows and almost any other disturbance. I don't think the dog likes visitors to the flat either.They have spent a lot of money on dog trainers, agility training and when we last saw the dog she was on some tranquilizer medicine. They have covered in the glass door that leads in to the garden because if the dog sees anything or hears anything outside she barks frantically. Access to windows is prevented too? They love the dog but life is very difficult and there have been noise complaints from neighbours. I have seen the dog twice at my house. My daughter is thinking she might have to re-home the dog and is very upset at the prospect of that happening. I have suggested the dog come and stay with me for a bit to give her a break but don't know if that is a good idea. Or should we stay with the dog at their place and they go away for a weekend to give them a break. I know there are some very experienced dog owners on this forum so would be very grateful for your suggestions. Apologies for the long post.

[sewinginmyfreetime]

I am afraid I don’t have any advice with how to stop the barking, but miniature schnauzers are famous for their barking, it was what they were bred for, so the dog may not be nervous and just exhibiting breed usual behaviour. My Nana’s Schnauzer is very rarely doing anything other than barking!

[Dollpiglet]

It sounds miserable. I'd suggest your DD reframes her thinking about her role as having fostered the dog for a bit and puts it up for rehoming. And importantly never buy another dog again!

[suggestionsplease1]

You can often teach a dog to be quiet - I use a silence gesture - finger over the lips with my cocker as he's more able to pay attention to that than the competing noise of the word 'quiet'. (But the dog has to be looking at you obviously for that to be effective) . Or you can thank the dog for their first alert and then instruct them to be quiet. You can teach the command in pairs like a lot of commands..so I first taught my dog to bark on command, and then taught him to stop. You tap into the natural behaviour when it is happening, link it with the word or gesture you want them to associate it with and then reward. So you're looking to reward the cessation of barking...when there is a short break say 'good dog for being quiet', offer a treat and the treat has the advantage of preventing them from barking too. Soon they should link the word quiet with stopping barking.

However! Some dogs just have such a high arousal system, or are just so naturally predisposed to this alert barking that it's hard to get their attention to make this work. In alerting situations like this they ideally need to sense that you are completely in charge, they don't need to worry about what's going on outside as you've got everything covered. So you have to really work on overall authority of the dog, training and obedience, to get it into that headspace so that it looks to you for instruction and pays attention when it has it.

The difficulty then is, that may work for times that you are present but not when you are out and the barking continues to annoy neighbours.

You can get things like citronella dog collar sprays for barking but many would consider these aversive and would not support use of. They certainly should never be left on a dog unsupervised.

A break is a good idea as it can help provide an opportunity to reset the behaviour...when it returns to the flat they would really have to start again with training and try to prevent the barking from becoming a habit.

[icedcoffees]

Did your daughter do any research before she decided to get a mini schnauzer?

Because they're known to be one of the noisiest breeds around of course there are always exceptions (before someone comes on and tells me theirs has never barked in their life) but schnauzers are bred to be very vocal. A quick google will tell you that.

From your description the dog does not sound nervous - just alert which is very normal for the breed. They bark for all sorts of reasons including because they like the sound of their own voice!

Agility training and anxiety medication won't stop a dog from barking - you need to teach a "speak" command (basically, teach the dog to bark on cue) then you can ask the dog to "speak" and then teach it to be quiet afterwards (by rewarding the quiet) and eventually you'll just be able to use "quiet".

I have a vocal breed myself and it can be tough but she'll probably never get it to shut up completely - expecting a schnauzer not to bark is a bit like getting a Labrador and expecting it not to shed!

[wetotter]

Has she seen a behaviourist as well as a trainer?

I think your DD was at best naive in tending on a yappy breed dog for whose behaviour has led to rehoming (who really knows what went on in the previous household)

I hope she can find a way to stick it.

Another idea is to see if doggy day care might help. Being in a small group of dogs during the day, in a home based set up, might be a positive change.

It would also give them a break, and give the neighbours a break too.

[Wolfiefan]

Behaviourist is a good call.
There’s also dog training advice and support on FB. Run by behaviourists.
Unfortunately this is the risk you run rehoming like this. Now you know why previous owners wanted rid! Plus it hasn’t come from a decent breeder or the contract would state that the pup had to be returned to them.

[Cloudninenine]

@Dollpiglet

It sounds miserable. I'd suggest your DD reframes her thinking about her role as having fostered the dog for a bit and puts it up for rehoming. And importantly never buy another dog again!

Why never buy a dog again?! It sounds like she’s done everything right and been responsible, but maybe her home just isn’t the right fit for this dog. Doesn’t mean she’ll never be able to have a dog ffs.

[Jjjayfee]

Oh thank you all so much. Really good helpful comments. I am sure they did research about the breed but didn't fully appreciate what yappy meant. I will ask whether they have seen a behaviourist.

[YanTanTethera123]

My sister has one and it’s the gobbiest dog I have ever met.
How much exercise does it get? What brain games does she do with it, how much training has it had?
I think it’s probably getting bored too hence the barking. They’re intelligent and need occupying.
Day care might help with exercise.

[Jjjayfee]

Just one question..they think a what they see is nervous rather than breed behaviour (I assume this as they have never mentioned the breed aspect) and comes from not being socialised by the first owner due to lockdown. Also, I see a lot of schnauzers out in our local park and they don't bark at me (they seem a popular breed round here). Perhaps they have been focusing on the wrong thing though

[Jjjayfee]

The posts about yappy gobby dog are making me smile. I will show these to my daughter when I see her. She is quite upset at the moment and might not see the funny side

[Astella22]

Have they considered doggie day care, it can be very good for socialising dogs which helps with nervousness. Also it tires the doggies out so they sleep when home. It doesn’t need to be a long term solution but it may help with establishing a new more normal behaviour pattern.
There are some awful and some great ones so do ur research.
You are such a good mum tryin to help your dd I hope they manage to resolve the problem.

[Jjjayfee]

For a bit more background. Dog has seen a behaviourist..now waiting to see a different behaviourist. Has had vet advice. They chose a schnauzer as they had done the borrow a dog scheme and looked after a schnauzer one day a week.

[weaselwords]

Miniature Schnauzers are fabulous little dogs, but very noisy. The dog is doing what it’s bred to do! It would be like trying to get a spaniel not to sniff or a collie not to herd to get it to shut up. Totally going against its nature.
Long term, she needs to live somewhere where her dog doing its job isn’t such a problem. Shorter term, train it to silence on command will be useful, but it will always bark!
I bet she won’t get burgled.

[Jjjayfee]

What I don't understand is why the schnauzer they looked after one day a week for many months inntheir flat didn't bark excessively. Also when I meet schnauzers in the park they don't bark at me.

[icedcoffees]

@Jjjayfee

What I don't understand is why the schnauzer they looked after one day a week for many months inntheir flat didn't bark excessively. Also when I meet schnauzers in the park they don't bark at me.

Because those dogs will have been trained - possibly for months - to be quiet. There is a HUGE difference between a calm, properly trained adult dog (of any breed) and a 5 month old teenage dog who is on it's second home and still learning correct behaviour.

It takes a lot of work to get a well-behaved adult dog - for most breeds you're looking at 2-3 years of solid training for most breeds. It doesn't happen overnight and your DD has decided to go for a 5 month old who is just about to enter adolescence. Unfortunately, that won't be easy.

[Cyberworrier]

Like PPs, I trained my dog as a pup to “shush”. You can often tell when a dogs about to start woofing so I would say shush and if he didn’t bark I’d say “good shushing” and give him a treat. We were in a flat when he was a pup so it was important to get his noise levels manageable. I agree doggy daycare is a good idea to get the dog some fun and just give your daughter some space, sounds like she has puppy blues even if the dog is a bit older? It must feel overwhelming, I do feel for her. But I’m sure they can get through it. Important for her to be able to relax and not give off stress vibes to the dog as if she’s on edge the pup might be sensing that and extra on alert. I also recommend keeping Radio 4 on to dim background noises that may be woof inducing.
Maybe you could take pup for a weekend/week so she can get a bit of rest and prepare herself for training/tackling the issues when pup goes home. I really hope they don’t have to rehome. Is the dog friendly/happy apart from the noise issue?

[Jjjayfee]

I don't know the dog well as due to lockdown and distance I have seen her twice. She is a sweet dog. They have been using the radio and many other things. I am hoping that a break will help. They are going to try another behaviourist. They don't want to re-home her but I think they are finding it very stressful having tried so many ways to help the dog. I think they feel that the main issue is having been born in lockdown, the first owner didn't socialise her and that by 5 months when they got her a lot of damage had been done. They say God loves a trier and they have and still are trying hard to help the dog.

[pinkpip100]

We have a 7 month old miniature schnauzer- so also a 'lockdown' puppy with limited socialisation in the early days. She sounds similar - barks a lot if she hears someone at the front door or neighbours in their garden. Also barks when people come into our house. As pp have said, some of this is breed typical, some probably a result of being born in the midst of a pandemic. We're working on it basically - as others have said, trying to train her to 'shush' rather than just escalating her noise! I don't think she'll ever be silent, but hopefully with time and maturity will become a bit less vocal.
She is also a bit nervous - mainly around other dogs - again I think this is a socialisation issue - and puppy classes are really helping. But I think she'll always be a bit sensitive!

[Jjjayfee]

Pinkpip it sounds similar. I think the fact that they live in a flat, albeit with their own section of the garden, has made things worse. Apparently she reacts to every sound from outside. I know they did puppy training because I was surprised that when the puppy had her first heat the trainer told my daughter to go along without the dog.

[KimmyAndMe]

So your DD is thinking about rehoming her dog because it barks?

Tell your DD to reward the dog for barking, with a low value treat. Then teach it “quiet” using a high value treat. It isn’t easy but if she preserves it is achievable, quickly.

Dogs are not stupid. Once the dog gets the idea it will wait for the high value treat - every time.

Both my dogs are from a rescue centre. Both manic barkers when they came to us. All sorted within 2 weeks. Good luck 🍀

[suggestionsplease1]

@Jjjayfee

What I don't understand is why the schnauzer they looked after one day a week for many months inntheir flat didn't bark excessively. Also when I meet schnauzers in the park they don't bark at me.

I think dogs can have a sense of what their space is and be quick to alert bark for home, but not in other spaces they are taken to, as they don't consider it their territory to defend in the same way. So that might be why the dog they looked after once a week didn't bark at theirs...it might have been a different story in its own home!

My dog alert barks here but doesn't do it at my parents house...you might find that when she goes to you for a break she doesn't bark so much, or at least not initially, until she develops a sense that it is her space to defend.

[Jjjayfee]

Thanks for the suggestions. It is good to know that if she is quiet here she won't necessarily be so at home otherwise I might think I have special dog whisperer skills!

[Turquoisesol]

@kimmyandme can you tell us more about this method of stopping barking? I would be interested in trying this

[Plant2628]

Jjjayfeey did they find a solution? Hope it worked out whatever the outcome