Jeff Gellman Seminars

[IWishItWasSummer]

I saw this on FB a few days ago and his training methods are barbaric imo. He’s apparently doing seminars in the UK this year and tickets are being sold by Event Brite. How can someone who uses shock collars and who advertises footage of him hitting dogs be allowed to hold seminars in the UK?

[heatseeker14]

Just watched a clip on YouTube. The guy is deranged

I also watched a video that showed him using a ‘bonker’. Poor dog looked so confused and scared.🙁

[Wolfiefan]

Shock collars and hitting dogs? Wants prosecuting not selling tickets. How awful.

[Scarsthelot]

Theres a petition on facebook to try and stop the events going ahead.

Its disgusting. Though I was in puppy training groups on fb, and American posters seem to love their shock collars. It's awful the amount of them that think they are fine and a great training tool. Many using them instead or before undertaking any training.

I left the groups.

[Wolfiefan]

Awful things. Almost got into a FB argument about the use of those collars and the invisible fences. Horrid.

[heatseeker14]

Lazy people who want a quick fix. I think owners that want to use a shock or prong collar should be made made to wear one. 😠

[Wolfiefan]

Those prong collars are beyond brutal. The injuries they can cause. Dreadful things.

[IWishItWasSummer]

I don’t understand how he can hold seminars when the devices he uses are banned though? Some people need educating in owning dogs. It makes me so angry to think some people treat animals like this.

[frostedviolets]

Is the 'hitting' video of the Great Pyrenees?

I have to say, I have watched videos of him training dogs with prongs and e collars and have seen no (to my unprofessional eye) signs of stress signals whatsoever.

I have been always been of the opinion that correctly used, these tools are not cruel.
That anything, even clickers can be cruel if misused.

I just watched the Pyrenees video now.

My opinion is completely and utterly changed.

The dog did literally nothing. At all.
I saw a happy, relaxed, engaged dog that looked up at its owner and was hit in the head.

I can't believe what I have watched and keep watching it again and again to try and see what the dog could possibly have done wrong.
My initial thinking was it must be a dangerous aggressive dog and he uses the towel at the first sign of stiffening or hard eye or whatever.
But I can't see anything at all.

Beyond disgusting.

[frostedviolets]

Clip is here incase no one can find it.
It seems to have been removed from YouTube, wonder why...

Absolutely vile

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/jeff-gellman-dog-manchester-rspca-17582807.amp

[IWishItWasSummer]

@frostedviolets. There is no need to use prong collars or e collars on any animal. Would you like a prong collar or e collar used on you to ‘teach’ you how to behave?

This sad specimen of a trainer actually thinks of a dog sniffs on a walk it is behaviour that needs ‘corrected’. 🙄. Oddly enough his twitter page and Facebook page has also been removed.

A lot of the dogs he ‘trains’ do nothing wrong (like in the footage). :

[frostedviolets]

@frostedviolets. There is no need to use prong collars or e collars on any animal. Would you like a prong collar or e collar used on you to ‘teach’ you how to behave?
I think what constitutes 'cruel' is somewhat open to interpretation.

Some people think crates are cruel.
Some people think a verbal correction like a no! Or AH! is cruel.

Re the collars, as I said, to my unprofessional eye, when watching videos of Gellman using prongs and e collars I could see no signs of distress in the dogs.

Unlike the horrific Pyrenees bonking video where stress and shock is clearly visible.

I therefore assume that perhaps these tools are not as cruel as claimed if correctly used.

For if they were cruel, you'd surely see yawns, lip lips, pinned ears, low tails, low body carriage, attempts to remove the collar etc etc?

This sad specimen of a trainer actually thinks of a dog sniffs on a walk it is behaviour that needs ‘corrected’. 🙄. Oddly enough his twitter page and Facebook page has also been removed
I agree that is odd and don't see the problem with sniffing.

A lot of the dogs he ‘trains’ do nothing wrong (like in the footage)
That horrifying footage is the only video I've watched where I have been genuinely shocked, horrified and upset.

I have watched quite a few of his videos prior and seen no evidence of distress in the dogs featured.

[Wolfiefan]

Shutting a dog in a crate for hours and hours on end is cruel. Crating a terrified dog with separation anxiety is cruel.
My pup has just wandered into her crate to sleep and sighed loudly at me to express her dissatisfaction at being disturbed for a last wee. The lights were on and everything. So U!
Prong collars and electric collars are designed to hurt. Completely unlike a crate. I can’t see how they could possibly be used humanely.

[Scarsthelot]

Would you advocate putting an e collar on a child who doesnt behave well?

People dont think crates are cruel. Their interpretation of crate training is. Every single person who thinks crate training is cruel thinks that you just put a dog in a crate, close the door and make them put up with it until they are quiet. Or they imagine everyone with a crate leaves their dogs in them all day and night.

That's not crate training. That's shutting your dog in a crate, which without training, is cruel. Leaving you dog for hours and hours, is cruel.

I have never met anyone who think crates are cruel when used correctly.

There is no way a pring or e collar can ever be anything but cruel. No matter how they are used.

Crates on the other hand, it's all about wether the owner actually does it properly.

[frostedviolets]

Prong collars and electric collars are designed to hurt
So is a head collar and they are widely used.
The language is gentle, steering like you would a horse or some other nonsense but it basically forces the dog's head down.

Even a regular collar will cause a great deal of pain if pulled against, if we are talking about a small dog, it's trachea could collapse.
That's surely potentially cruel too?

The only genuinely humane option would be bribery via toys or treats with nothing about the neck or chest to stop discomfort on pulling.

[frostedviolets]

I have never met anyone who think crates are cruel when used correctly

I have!
They are banned in Sweden aren't they?

[IWishItWasSummer]

@frostedviolets if you think shock collars or prong collars are humane then you are deluded. Would you be willing to wear one?

Personally, I have never needed to use any form of inhumane devices to successfully train any of my dogs. It’s called understanding canine cognitive behaviour, none of which require the use of shock, prong collars or violence.

I will stand by my initial OP. There is no place for trainers like Jeff Gellman in the UK. His methods are barbaric.

[Scarsthelot]

Crates arent banned. They cant have the door closed. Does anyone go an check?

Have you met the whole of Sweden?

In no wayx can shocking a dog ever be considered ok. Ever.

[frostedviolets]

@frostedviolets if you think shock collars or prong collars are humane then you are deluded. Would you be willing to wear one?
I didn't actually say they were.
What I actually said was in the videos I have seen the dogs did not show any sign of stress (to my unprofessional eye) and that what constitutes 'humane' or 'cruel' is open to interpretation and different depending on who you ask.

Personally, I have never needed to use any form of inhumane devices to successfully train any of my dogs. It’s called understanding canine cognitive behaviour, none of which require the use of shock, prong collars or violence
Good for you.
I wasn't advocating the use of such products.
Just pointing out that in the videos I have seen, I could see no sign of stress.
Which would suggests to me that perhaps when correctly used they may not be as cruel as assumed because presumably a product causing distress would cause visible signs like changes in body posture etc.

I do not agree with any form of training that causes distress/suffering.
Obviously.

In any case, I'm not going to be continuing on this thread.

I haven't spoken out in support of Gellman.

And I haven't said I agree with the use of prongs, e collars etc.

Literally just said that the footage I've seen shows dogs who don't appear to be distressed and that what constitutes 'cruel' differs depending on who you ask.
Which it does.

Crates, head collars, no pull harnesses, pet correctors.

All humane according to some, all abusive according to others.

Crates arent banned. They cant have the door closed. Does anyone go an check?
My understanding was that Sweden (and Finland) do not allow dogs to be crated.
Presumably because they see crates as inhumane.
Always willing to be proved wrong of course.

[tabulahrasa]

“So is a head collar“

Head collars aren’t designed to hurt, or pull their heads down... there’s one brand that’s designed to hurt, I can think of one brand that’s designed to pull their head down - but there’s at least 3 that do neither.

So not the same at all as prong or shock collars.

[Scarsthelot]

Crates are not designed to make a dog uncomfortable.

E collars and prong collar are designed to do exactly that. They are designed to train the dog that you will feel uncomfortable/pain when you act in a way that isnt what the owner wants.

Again, would people advocate this type of training for children. We also contain babies and toddlers in areas with cots, play pens, baby gates. We restrict their movement outdoors with reigns, prams etc

But people wouldnt use a shock a collar.

As I said, I am of the opinion that these collars can not be used in a responsible way. Just as hitting a dog with a towel, can never be done in a responsible way.