spayed bitch now in season

[Shriek]

I am pretty sure this mus be quite uncommon occurence and I have no experience of it at all however post spay, some 6-8 mths ago bitch started showing signs behaviourally of rising hormones in prep for season. Then spot on time starting bleeding.

Anyone here have any experience of this for next options in terms of whether hormonal medication would be any better admjnsteredd at this point than later when full phantom set in as I know these meds are notoriously horrendous and want to avoid at all costs but what are choices now!

[reallyanotherone]

how is she bleeding if she no longer has a uterus to bleed from?

I'd be at the vets.

[RaveclawZia13]

When spayed her ovaries and uterus should have been removed so either it wasn't done correctly which could have major consequences or she has a urine infection

[missyB1]

I have never heard of this, hoping to get our girl spayed in December, I will be very cross if she comes into season after that

[tabulahrasa]

I'd be straight to the vets.

[Shriek]

She has all the usual hormonal responses bless her and now that she's bleeding that confirms that that there is ovarian tissue retained and no it doesnt happen often and is very unlikely to happen in fact but does happen. I just didnt have any personal or links to any with experience of it despite being involved in breeding all my long life!

Jus hoping that might be other breeders on here (who have a higher chance if having come across this before) with advice around next choice as I know what they will be but need to hear some experienced discussion around ways to go best options. I know it s a bit of a stab in the dark but hopefully there might be some around.

[Shriek]

'retained' is the wrong word was typing fast and coulndt thinm but retained would be after whelping. Whereas this is remnants left behind which then stimulate all the usual symptoms expected prestrus and estrus.

Sometimes there are vets post on here.

[reallyanotherone]

I can see what you mean if there's ovarian tissue remaining, but if she's bleeding there must be uterine tissue too- only that tissue bleeds in response to hormones.

So i would think the spay isn't complete, and id have her back to the vets or you'll have this forever.

[Shriek]

No definitely spay is incomplete as happens on few occasions.

Has anyone else come across this? Thinking i'm probably going to draw a blank, but needing to hear others experiences of options.

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

I'd go to the vet's asap.

[powershowerforanhour]

I had an ovarian remnant syndrome patient once that I had spayed and it was a cat not a dog (it's easier to get at the ovaries a cat so I don't know how I managed to leave a bit in).
Sometimes in dogs the ovarian ligaments attaching the ovaries to the back of the kidneys are very tight, short and difficult to break down safely, leaving very little room for the blood vessel clamps (the ovarian artery runs beside the ligaments and this has to be very securely clamped and tied off or you risk life threatening haemorrhage). So the clamp and ligature (or ligatures as a lot of us like to place two ligatures) can end up very close to the ovary and even nip a bit off it. If that little tiny bit stays attached to the tissue you're leaving in it can hypertrophy (regrow, essentially) till there is enough functional ovarian tissue for the bitch to show signs of a season.
So you have to go back in and remove it, preferably when the bitch is in season so the remnant is at its biggest and easiest to see. Some vets like to do some hormone testing first to confirm, others like to just go ahead and get back in there.
I addition to the cat that I had spayed, I've seen a bitch spayed by somebody else that came in heat again. In both cases I was lucky and the tissue was easily found and removed when I went back in for exploratory surgery when they were in heat.

[yeOldeTrout]

They couldn't actually get pg, though, could they, powershower?

[powershowerforanhour]

No....even if just the ovaries rather than ovaries+uterus were removed (either method is acceptable), the tissue between ovaries and uterus is tied off and cut. So there is no way of an egg getting to the uterus.
Even for an ectopic pregnancy to happen, the lucky sperm would have to somehow make it through the scar tissue at this site (or where the cervix was tied off, if it was a full ovariohysterectomy) then wander the abdomen and happen upon a free floating egg, fertilise it and the resulting fertilised egg implanting on some random organ surface and surviving rather than just dying die to not having the uterine environment it was designed for. I suppose it might have happened once upon a time somewhere but I expect so rare the dog is more likely to get hit by lightning leaving the surgery!

[reallyanotherone]

There are human cases where babies have been carried in the abdomen- usually implanting to the colon wall. Both post-hysterectomy and in women with a uterus.

o/p I don't quite get what you're asking here. The spay is incomplete, you need to get back to the vets and get it sorted.

Even if someone else has been through this, as power shower says, it's get back to the vet and get the remaining tissue removed.

Are you hoping to hear from someone who has managed the symptoms of incomplete spay rather than resolve it permanently through surgery? Is there a reason you're not going back to a vet to get the spay completed?

[Shriek]

Thanks for all contributions. Just to clarify again:

I need to hear views from those woth experience of this to inform my thoights on nextsteps based on thos experiences.

Also going to post in short series of replies rather than one longer one as tried that last night and lost the lot!

[Shriek]

I know, basics, of whats involved in orocedure and some losing ovaries only and others uterus only and others ovahysterectomy. Also could be remnantsb left and not always found after 2nd op or weighing up if 2md op fails a tissue ca't b found, depending where it is, how horrendous for bitch to have to go through major surgery with fragile tissue during season with more blood and then go into a very problematic phantom full of milk and overwhelmed by hormones

[Shriek]

Hence my want to speak to any with experiences of : using meds to prevent season, chances of finding remnants, other causes of estrus, risks of phantom after major op combined with aggressive homonal meds.

Horrendous for bitch and big decisiinto make when so few have experience of outcomes .

Also blood test to confirm remants as opposed to others causes and if not remnants but higjer up ligamentsand greater risk of not finding wwhat then . Perm meds? Or hysterectomy?

[Shriek]

Other causes like ectopic tissue or exyra ovary somewhere hidden

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Did you botch have an ovarectomy or a ovarohysterectomy as the potential issues a different depending on which occurred.
Most ovarian remanent syndrome is easily dealt with in general practice, tricky cases specialist soft tissue surgeons are able to deal with..
I had one case that couldn't have the tissue remove, but that dog had independent chronic renal failure that complicated the treatment plan.

[Shriek]

Thank you lonewithcat was ovarectomy. Its the follow up decisions that others experiences would help me with. as added complications of aggressive phantom could badly aggrvate any surgery at this point if unsuccessful. Wondering if meds this time would b make easier abd whether there wold b need for daily meds or just round season time

[orangeyellowgreen]

DM's cat kept coming into season after being spayed. The vet said she had endometriosis and gave hormones which worked.

[Shriek]

I did wonder about that too orange

How did you find out cat had endometriosis? Was it spotted during surgery? Or result of further investigations, which? Bloods/scans/laparoscopy

[Shriek]

Endometriosis just dies off without the hormones I thought?

[Lonecatwithkitten]

If it is an ovarectomy you need to proceed with caution and attempt to identify the ovarian tissue as a pup is distinct possibility.

[orangeyellowgreen]

Shriek DM's cat had no investigations, the vet said endometriosis but DM suspected the vet had left a bit of ovary in.

[shockingsocks]

My vet told me to leave the tissue there because it would probably be too hard to find HOWEVER my poor dog struggled for years with an almost permanent season, she could never relax and suffered a number of injuries over the years due to her 'desires'. When I went to a new vet and asked them to go back in they found that an entire ovary had been left behind and had attached itself to some other bit nearby (I forget which) so there was a risk of later problems. As it was these didn't come to pass and she's now a relaxed and happy old bird (although she'll never be able to walk very far due to one of these injuries). I feel permanently guilty that I didn't do more, earlier.