Poodle crosses

[Doggonecrazy]

So following on from my previous thread, DH not keen on a minature poodle, is it ever okay to buy a so called designer pup? Thinking a schnauzer poodle cross.
Don't want to support the so called puppy trade I have read about. Is it possible to buy from a reputable breeder?

[tabulahrasa]

It's very very hard to find reputable breeders of crosses...the thing is that it's hard to find good breeders of pedigree dogs and there are lots of reasons to be breeding them other than money, so to find one for crosses is even harder.

A reputable breeder should be breeding for a reason other than just selling puppies - and there aren't that many reasons to breed crosses, so that limits your field straight away. (In my opinion breeding a cross to sell them as nice pets isn't a good enough reason to add to the dog population - there are thousands of perfectly nice crosses already in existance in rescues)

They should do the health tests appropriate for both breeds they are crossing. Many don't bother, they talk about things like hybrid vigour and crosses being healthier when that isn't necessarily the case at all.

They should also interview you to see if you're suitable owners, insist on meeting you all and insist on taking back the puppy if you ever need to rehome it.

Reputable breeders breed rarely, once every couple of years - because they're not just churning out puppies and they usually have a waiting list of owners before a bitch is even mated.

Things like insurance and a puppy pack help as well, but, even some dodgy breeders do those.

See if there's a club for the cross you're interested in - its probably your best bet for finding a decent breeder. Of all of those, I wouldn't touch a breeder who hasn't done the health tests, not just a vet check, but the proper tests appropriate to the breed with certification.

[AgathaF]

I've not read your previous thread, but just wondered if there was a particular reason why your DH wouldn't want either a poodle or a schnauzer? Why the need for a cross breed?

[SweepTheHalls]

Mumsnet looks down on poodle crosses. I have a labradoodle. He is fantastic, no hair dropping, wonderful with my children. I'm not allergic to him and he can run all day. A wonderful breed. Slightly mad though and you do need to be firm with training!

[tabulahrasa]

There's nothing wrong with poodle crosses - its the hundreds of people breeding them indiscriminately for profit without health testing and making false claims about them that are objectionable.

I like labs, I like poodles - I can't see any reason why a labradoodle wouldn't be equally as nice, but, they're not all non-shedding and they have inherited illnesses in common that should be tested for because they can still get them.

[Floralnomad]

I don't think MN looks down on poodle crosses at all I just think that many frequent users of this forum are very aware of how many dogs there are in rescue so breeding dogs just for financial gain is a bit of an issue . Anybody breeding crossbreeds is doing so purely for financial gain as there is no other logical reason for doing so . Oh and whilst I'm having my moan sweep your dog may be lovely but he is not a 'wonderful breed' ,he is a wonderful crossbreed ' . OP if you want a non shedding dog do not get a cross as you will not know whether it will shed until its adult coat is established.

[Doggonecrazy]

I thought a minature poodle would be ideal, my DH likes schnauzers. I thought I might be getting the best of both worlds and figured as they are both low shedding dogs I wouldn't risk getting a high shedding dog. Have found a local breeder that is licensed by the council. Her bitches only have one litter a year, but she has several bitches and studs. Won't make a rash decision, just considering my options.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Licenced by the council is often not a good thing, they have to licenced if they have multiple litters. So puppy farmers are licenced.

[tabulahrasa]

Yep avoid breeders licences by the council - that's not a good thing.

Also breeding from bitches every year isn't good either - they should have at least two years between litters, so they're fully recovered.

[nuttymutty1]

I agree with everything that has been said about the ethics of buying a poodle cross and would not get one for that reason.

Also you are looking at two quite high energy dogs and your first thread I think mentioned a limit on exercise you would be able to give.
Poodle and Schnauzers are very busy intelligent dogs - they will need a lot of attention and exercise. No 20 min walk and sleep for either of them.

I don't like generalizing re dogs but Schnauzers can be a bit guardy without proper training and socialisation. They are good at obedience work with the correct positive training methods but will also think things out for themselves.

[FCEK]

In my eyes a mongrel is a dog where you don't know what it's parents were so I don't have an issue with poodle crosses and I would consider them a breed. Don't really understand why people get so worked up about it though. I know some cockerpoos and they are lovely friendly dogs.

[tabulahrasa]

People get worked up about it because....

Bitches are bred year after year without ever giving them time to get healthy again.

Puppies are churned out and sold to anyone, some of them will be lovely owners, some will have decided to get a cute puppy on a whim...which is why free ads are full of half grown puppies and there are rescues set up just for poodle crosses.

Because often poodle crosses are mis-sold as non-shedding when it depends entirely on what they're crossed with and which genes they get, with no real way of telling until they're fully grown.

Because things like hip dysplasia and PRA are just as likely to appear in labradoodles as in poodles and Labradors - yet people cross them without testing as crosses are supposedly healthier. So then you have dogs going lame or blind with heartbroken owners with huge vet bills.

It's nothing to do with the actual dogs - it's not about being a purist or thinking that crosses are wrong, it's just to do with the fact that dogs suffer because their breeder was more interested in profit than animal welfare.

Some buyers are lucky and it never has to occur to them that somewhere along the line dogs are suffering because they gave a bad breeder money and made it worthwhile - their dog is fine and lovely.

But the overbred bitch could have been fine and lovely too, and the adolescent in a shelter, and the 16 week old puppy who can't walk or the 1 yr old dog who's going blind...if everone picked breeders who breed ethically.

[pinkbraces]

I have a 5 year old Labradoodle, she is the most wonderful dog, great personality, energetic, but will also sleep all day if she gets the chance. We absolutely adore her and cant imagine a time she wasnt part of our family.

However, she has hip dysplacia and Addisons disease along with skin problems, and she is very accident prone, two operations before she was eighteen months old. I say a silent prayer most days for getting the best insurance I could when we bought her as she has cost £000's. Our insurance premium is now very high and we have started a savings account to cover expenses for when we can no longer get insurance.

I did what I thought was very thorough research before we bought her, chose a 'reputable' breeder, asked lots of questions, understood the exercise she would need and was quite pleased with myself as I thought I had gone into doodle ownership with all the facts and plenty of homework. I was wrong.

Dont get me wrong, we still never ever regret getting her, she is a brilliant addition to our family and I would sell the family heirlooms to pay the vets bills.

[needastrongone]

You might get the worst of both worlds too, don't forget Not guaranteed to get the best traits of both dogs. That's the thing with the crosses, you don't know which aspects of the parents will come through.

Again, I know some amazingly lovely 'doodles' and some super owners, it's just I can't get past that it must have been done for some element of profit.

My SIL's cross is a collie/lab cross. An unfortunate accident when the local farmers collie went walkabout! The owner in question gave away the resulting litter to folk in the small village where they live, people who they have known for years so could guarantee good homes. There were 4 pups, they are all so different it's amazing.

A silly mistake to let a bitch in season in the garden, but at least the resulting litter was cared for then given away for free. Perhaps she should have called it them Lollies and charged £600

[celestialsquirrelnuts]

There is practically no such thing as a reputable breeder of poodle crosses, that's the problem.
A reputable breeder generally breeds dogs to strengthen and improve the breed, often keeping one from a litter to show.
Someone crossing breeds clearly is not interested in the breed, so what are they crossing for? They aren't crossing with a poodle for hypoallergenic dogs as many will tell you - because only 1 in 4 puppies will be hypoallergenic and therefore why not just breed the poodle to a poodle? They aren't breeding for healthier dogs as many will tell you - if you breed a poodle to another breed you are just adding poodle problems to the other breeds problems not breeding problems out. Also who in their right minds would cross a lab - a heavy set, big headed, greedy and not very bright dog - with a poodle - a fine boned, energetic, clever dog and think that is a good mix?! Nobody credible. Let alone mixing poodles with cavalier King Charles spaniels, possibly the unhealthiest and worst bred dogs around. There is nothing good that a King Charles can add to a poodle.
They aren't breeding them to get another breed as many will tell you - they aren't another breed, they are just cross breed mongrels.
If the breeder sells them as mongrels for £80 then at least that would be honest, but they aren't, they are selling the cross breeds for £500-950!!

So you may hear breeders of mixed breeds calling themselves reputable, but really they aren't. They are all just trying to make a fast buck and the actual dogs that result can go hang. Sad really.

[AgathaF]

I agree with everything you have just said celestial.

[Scuttlebutter]

Just to add yet another reason to the growing list of issues. What unscrupulous breeders do (especially one registered to KC etc) is that the poodle, say, will be their main breed, but they can only register a finite number of litters per bitch. By crossing their bitch with another breed, they get a nice little earner out but of course they can say to the purchaser, very regretfully, "Of course, I'm not allowed to register this litter, as the little darlings are crossbreeds, but I'm a reputable breeder...." In this way, they can squeeze out a few more litters from their poor bitches, and get round the rules designed to protect the bitch. I've seen lots of breeders do this.

There is NO good reason to get a doodle or a "poo" type cross.

[mrslaughan]

There are many many good and valid points listed above. I am someone who has posted negatively about doodles, my biggest bug bear ( other than the breeding for profit - using bitches as machines and then discarding them) is so many people come on here and say get a doodle - they don't shed and it is just not true for all of them, and you can't tell until they are fully mature, by which time the breeder who has promised a non-shedding dog has long gone.

[Doggymammy]

Did anyone watch pedigree dogs exposed? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed

I have a labradoodle who is fantastic (and gorgeous!) and I wouldn't change her for the world

[BrianTheMole]

I love poodle crosses. I had a poodle cross long haired Chihuahua. She was absolutely adorable. This was back in the seventies before they became designer dogs. I wouldn't want to pay the stupid prices for a cross these days though.

[SweepTheHalls]

My doodle has a traceable family history, with hip scores. Mothers was only bred once every 2/3 years and we researcher him well before buying. He is exactly what we paid for.

[nooka]

We have a lovely mutt. He came from a rescue at eight weeks - they said that he might have some Rottie or maybe some terrier in him all we know is that there is some American Water Spaniel in there, but he looks nothing like his mum and I don't think she can have been very pure either. He is fits our family perfectly.

My brother has a Golder Retriever, and my mother and big sister have miniature schnauzers. Our dog is by far the best the schnauzers are both very willful and my sister's dog yips like anything. They are all much loved of course. I rather like the fact that our dog is quite unique (apart from his siblings). He's not been free from health issues though.

If you want a small cross then why not look at rescue? Lots and lots of dogs available of all shapes and sizes and good rescues who use fosterers can give you much much more information about your prospective dog than pretty much any other source.

[namechange74]

doggonecrazy bit of a sore point for me at the moment as our Schnoodle is in renal failure at the moment. (we don't know if his anesthetic exacerbated an existing condition - controversial point given some posts on this thread?) But just wanted to let you know, he is the most lovely natured, beautiful puppy.

[Doggonecrazy]

Nooka, would be happy to look at rescues, but genuinely have come across many rescues full of staffies, staffie cross, rottie cross etc. I know some you will have had wonderful experiences with similar dogs, but I don't personality want to re home one. I haven't looked for long, so will keep looking or if anyone has a link to a rescue centre with the type of dogs i have mentioned, I would be happy to travel.
Namechange, sorry to hear your pup is unwell, I appreciate your comments and hope he improves soon.
Just to clarify, I have lots of time for walks etc, just had been unsure on other thread if I could leave the dog for 3 hours or so if I say had an appointment.
Coming across lots of puppy farm type breeders, so still searching.

[LadyTurmoil]

It's true that you often come across certain types/breeds of dogs in rescue but not always. If you are prepared to wait, you will find suitable dogs. Whereabouts are you?

You could start by looking at Many Tears They are based in Wales but many dogs are fostered throughout UK. They have many ex-breeding dogs who can only go to homes with existing dogs so they can copy dog behaviour etc but they also have puppies, dogs handed in because of relationship breakdowns, moving house etc

It's good to get on the "lists" of your local rescues, discuss your needs/lifestyle etc and then they will have you in mind when a suitable dog arrives.

I have to say that many men prefer larger, more so-called masculine dogs. My brother who is about 6' 3" has a white, fluffy bichon which he loves! He got it for his daughter when she was younger, the daughter (now 14) pretty much ignores the dog but he's very happy and loves it!

Poodles are really good dogs, intelligent, not too big, look nice with simple haircut, very amenable. Poodles in Need www.poodlesinneed.com/Pages/AVAILABLEDOGS.aspx also worth a look.

[celestialsquirrelnuts]

Not sure at all about many tears. They seem to be a sort of outlet centre for puppy farms to dump unwanted stock once the puppies are a bit too big to be really cute. And to dump exhausted breeding bitches. I would suggest they could be considered as part of the problem re puppy farming rather than any part of a solution.
Also note they are a commercial privately owned organisation charging not insubstantial prices for dogs, not a charity. Their reasons for this are extremely waffley on their website and boil down to "because it's our business".

Just because they call the price for the dog a "rehoming fee" doesn't make it a rescue.