Question for Vets or anyone with experience with juvenile cataracts

[HolgerDanske]

Hi everyone

I have been looking forward to having a puppy for a few years now but have waited patiently until everything else was in place, which it now happily is

I have seen the most beautiful little sable cocker spaniel girl, she really is utterly gorgeous, and I am quite smitten. I have been informed by her breeder that she has juvenile cataracts, so I am asking here for advice on how much of an issue this is likely to be over the years. All the rest of her health tests have come back clear, so hopefully this will be an isolated issue.

As I understand it, most dogs with cataracts do not go blind, so it seems it is not quite as progressive a condition as I first thought. Is this correct?

Obviously I won't be able to claim for this condition on her insurance, as it's a pre-existing condition. So I will be making up a special fund for this area of her health maintenance. How much is it likely to be over the years, would you say? I guess it depends on how it progresses, and what I was told by the veterinarian nurse I spoke to just now at my vets' surgery, it is impossible to know how it will progress until it happens. If you have any long term experience with this condition, what has it meant over the years, particularly financially? How much would be a sensible amount to put away pm or annually, would you say?

Finally, are you able to reassure me bringing this lovely girl into my family isn't a silly thing to do, after all we can never be sure that a puppy isn't going to end up with some health condition over the years. Will she still be able to have a happy and contented life? Her breeder says she is a happy little thing and runs around everywhere with the six other dogs.

Thank you

[FuckyNell]

I'm not a vet. I think you have to listen to your head tbh, it's natural to let your heart speak up in favour of the perceived 'underdog'

I think I would pass this dog by. As you say, eyes are now uninsurable, and they are expensive to fix.

Is the breeder taking money off her selling price?

[HolgerDanske]

Thank you :-)

Yes, the price is reduced due to this issue.

As I understand it, cataract surgery is rarely advised and many dogs live a happy life regardless, depending on the size of the cataracts. I am keen to understand what it actually means in real terms, as I am more than happy to take in a dog that has a condition that is manageable and won't cause it undue distress. But of course I have to be realistic about it and I want to go into it with a full understanding of what I am taking on and most importantly what it means for the dog's quality of life.

[Bakingtins]

I would suggest you ask the breeder if you can take her to a veterinary ophthalmologist and get her eyes assessed before you commit yourself. Ask your local vet to recommend someone.
You need to know how severe the cataracts are now and more importantly, how likely it is that they will progress. Cataract surgery is likely to be in the region of £1500-2000 per eye, so a price reduction on the pup is not much of a dent in that. The potential is for the cataracts to progress to cause blindness, but also secondary problems like the lens becoming loose within the eye which can cause uveitis (inflammation of the eye) or glaucoma (build up of pressure within the eye) which in a worst case scenario can end up with the eye having to be removed.
If your heart says this is the pup for you, at least let your head get a realistic assessment of the problems you might face before you commit.

[steeking]

What Bakingtins said.

[HolgerDanske]

Thank you, that's very helpful.

[TotallyBursar]

I'm sorry I can't reassure you. I would not go forward with a Sable cocker that already has cataracts.
There's a lot of controversy in the Cocker world regarding permitting Sable due to health issues. There are currently no breeders, whose reputation and ethics are of a long proven high standard (no 'cheeky' moves due to their big name buying leeway), breeding for Sable.

You will be best served by getting an opthalmolgy referral and specialist input to manage this as she is so young, she may not progress but just have impaired vision, she may get glaucoma or require surgery/on going treatment - there isn't anyway to know although regular monitoring can identify early signs of change for better or worse. Being under the equivalent of a Consultant often brings more options than may be available in first opinion practice.
It depends as well on what all her health tests were - breed standard old style or DNA? If DNA then you can rule out gpra etc but if exam then you can't.

How expensive depends on how you opt to go ahead, referral will be more expensive but may well be of better value management wise. As to her QOL dogs get used to things, she knows no different but again progression, daily treatment or surgery obviously has an impact on that.

Sorry, I couldn't encourage this breeder to continue at the expense of welfare, there is no health reason for Sable to be introduced, just money. I would go somewhere else to support breeders that work hard to improve health for the benefit of their dogs and the breed as a whole. Getting rid of issues that cause poor qol, not bringing them in intentionally to increase revenue.

[TotallyBursar]

Sorry x posted as trying to do more than one thing.
Didn't mean to rpt Opthal adv.

[HolgerDanske]

Thank you very much, I am getting exactly the kind of insight here that I was hoping for. I really appreciate it.

I think I knew already before I posted, but I wanted to be sure I was giving the idea proper consideration and not just dismissing it out of fear or ignorance.

It is quite fraught, trying to navigate this whole thing. I am going to do right by the puppy but also by my children and our future life together.

[PinkFairyArmadillo]

I very much agree with what TotallyBursar said with regards to supporting this breeder.

I've also got a dog who had juvenile cataracts and was blind by the time she was 3 years old. Although she actually coped very well with losing her sight (you'd never have guessed she couldn't see) and lived a pretty much normal life, as she was so young we decided to go ahead with surgery. Had saving her sight been the only benefit then it would have been a harder decision but cataracts can cause other eye problems which can be painful. It wasn't covered by insurance and cost us £5000 for both eyes to be done at the same time.

I will be honest and say it was quite a traumatic process both for her and for us. We couldn't walk her for a month to let her eyes heal properly and it was quite tough keeping her quiet at times. She had a huge array of eye drops which she needed several times a day. She was so good about having them, even though there was a particular one which stung her. It was also a massive shock for her regaining her sight all at once, she became a little nervous for a while until she adjusted.

We're two years post surgery now and it has been worth it but it was very hard going for a long time. The frequent trips back to the opthamologist (weekly, then fortnightly, then monthly, then six monthly) became very stressful as she developed an intense hatred of the vet, understandably I suppose as all he did was poke about with her eyes.

The whole process is certainly not something I'm in a rush to repeat.

[HolgerDanske]

Thank you. I am glad to hear you have come through it now. What a brave girl.

[TotallyBursar]

It's hard to try and consider the unknown as well. What if she suffers painful progression? What if she doesn't? You can't know.

One of our Danes developed dry eye and associated problems due to an autoimmune condition. He was a one off, his breeder couldn't have known. That was cold comfort for him tbh. He was incredibly brave and stoic but hated sore eye medications, had to have more than one surgery for ulcers etc and even though he was under the best care in the country ended up in pain every day. He dealt with it all and ran and played and loved but I would never do it to another dog. His treatment was near £25,000 over his lifetime and whilst I would pay every penny again the money was never the issue.

We wouldn't sell this puppy. I wouldn't look kindly on someone who was. In 14 years we have had one health issue in one puppy, it appears to be a total one off - she is sat on my feet right now after being fixed up as a baby some 8 years ago. If it isn't reasonable to keep dogs that are unwell you have too many dogs or too much illness. From my perspective (as a breeder and AVN) doing right by this puppy is her staying at home and being given the best treatment money can buy, doing right by her is not putting her in a position that is high risk for welfare concerns (not you, you sound lovely) - the potential for cost/tx to become too much and the pup get sub standard/no treatment or dumped is really, really high, what kind of person would risk that? Because of course you are considering it from your lovely perspective, you will care for her for as long as she lives; that is not usual, people think they will but a real live dog comes as a shock, the time commitment for health care is huge and suddenly it's not such a great idea any more. Bye broken dog, hello puppy. And, if she's fine with that, what else is she fine with? Completely cutting you off from support once she has your cash? She's happy to breed with knowledge of health problems and she's happy to sell a puppy with one of those problems...

[HolgerDanske]

Thanks again. I very much appreciate the comments. I have gained enough understanding now to realise that it would not be the right thing to do.

[LadyTurmoil]

Reading everything on this thread - it seems to be that the breeder has real cheek to ask for ANY money for this puppy or to be selling it at all...