Abusive Jogger(55 Posts)
Just got back from taking my puppy for an early morning walk. We met a very nasty male jogger who started abusing me because my tiny puppy started to jump up on him while he was jogging. I agree that this is unacceptable behaviour for my puppy - who is still learning. It didn't help that he was prancing about the place as though he was playing with her.
I'm a really responsible dog owner and I work really hard at it. I follow Gwen Bailey's perfect puppy advice (which is hard work), etc, etc.
However, so many people (joggers included) stop and pet the puppy and play with it that it undoes my training to ignore joggers. So it makes it so difficult when you get the odd jogger who really reacts badly.
We were walking in the country at the crack of dawn (literally), which is the only place my puppy is off lead.
It also didn't help that at 6 months old, her recall has suddenly gone to pot and when I call her, she runs away. I'm told this is typical teenager behaviour but it didn't look good in front of the abusive jogger when I couldn't catch my doggy to put it on the lead.
No point to this post, just letting off steam really.
Oh....re teenage thing. Should I start walking her on the lead in the country while her recall is unreliable? What are other people doing? Not much in Gwen Bailey on the teenage thing.
A couple of ideas to help your recall problems:
1. Do you go to training classes? If not, join one asap. There is no substitute for training in a controlled environment with expert help where you can manage distractions.
2. Play the recall game. You need two people in a small enclosed space like a garden. Crouch a few metres away from each other and take it in turns to call the puppy in a high pitched, excited voice. Reward everytime the puppy comes. Repeat often and in different places.
3. Save your best food rewards for recall, e.g. liver, sausage, cheese.
4. Find a suitable place (empty, no other people) and long line your puppy. That is put a very lightweight, long line on her collar and allow it to trail behind her (it should be very lightweight so that she forgets about it). Let the dog run loose, then call her. If she does not come immediately, step on the line and walk on it all the way to your dog. Gently place your hand under her collar and walk backwards to where you originally were when you called her. When you get there, praise, reward and release her. Repeat ad nauseum. Don't let her off the lead at other times. If you keep this up for 3-4 weeks it works wonders.
5. Don't always put on the lead and leave when you recall her. Recall her often and then let her go continue her walk free. Also always reward the puppy for being near you voluntarily.
I had some issues with this too so i feel your pain. You get in the position where you are training them to recall but it isn't perfect yet so they end up doing something unacceptable. You keep them on a lead then you can't check how your recall training is working!
My advice is to persevere. My pup is 15 months now and doesn't bother chasing joggers now, or bikes. She also recalls pretty easily from other dogs too. I never, ever thought we would be at this stage.
I think you will find you got different responses if you had said in the first place that its private property as that's a bit like saying someone shouted abuse at me because my dog jumped up them when they came into my garden . That would be a totally different situation !
Thanks for the advice all. My last post on this thread. Just for info, my little doggy was in a private, open field this morning, at 6am to which we are lucky enough to have access.
Not a place commonly used for jogging and inaccessible by bike. Was training my doggy at time. Jogger came up behind us from behind a bush and I didn't see him until it was too late. Then he started prancing and hopping about. Puppy thought he was playing a game with her.
Like I said, it is unacceptable for a puppy to jump up and I understand that. I am an inexperienced dog owner and it's taken me a little while to realise I dont' have my lovely compliant puppy anymore but a unruly teenage one.
I will be more careful in future but a little compassion from both sides of the fence wouldn't go astray.
Nobody ever solved anything by abusing the people they are trying to persuade.
Fragile, I feel your pain! My pup is 11 months and loves to run. He never jumps up but likes to run next to joggers. I think everyone we've met has been very patient so far. What works best for us is distraction...i get him into a 'heel' position and focussed on a treat in my hand while we pass a jogger, or use a squeaky ball to get his attention and throw it away from the jogger until they're past. Would either of those work for you?
Although he's a cunning little bugger and generally ignores men but will run off cheekily after women because he knows he'll get more attention from them!
If I'm quite honest, I wouldn't mind if pizpup got kicked by accident. Same as playing with bigger, older dogs, he's an over-confident teen and I think he needs to learn his lesson that not everyone adores him.
Try not to dwell on it, sounds like you're working hard and you're nearly there!
My son got bitten by a Dalmation on a public playing field when he was at school ( they used the field for games) ,the teacher had shouted at everyone to stop and my son hadn't heard ( he's deaf ) and the dog grabbed him from behind and bit his leg .The teacher was so concerned about dealing with my son that the owner had just walked away by the time anybody thought to speak to him. I'm sorry but dogs should not be off lead unless you have complete control whether they are aged,puppies ,cute ,ugly or something inbetween . viva my DH also got knocked off his bike a couple of weeks ago at about 9.30 at night ,he was on a road and the dog ran off a playing field and went straight into the road and hit him before veering back onto the field , the owners were way off in the distant blissfully unaware . What worried us more was that it could just have easily been a car and the dog could have been dead !
I have had many a run ruined by dogs jumping up or suddenly crossing right in front of me. I completely agree with Russians posts. I have every right to run without someone else's pet wanting to "only play". If I wanted a dog I'd get one.
MrsW, personally I find people who don't mind dogs jumping up or indeed even biting them when out running, beyond weird.
Op, change your route, as others have said. It is great that you are attempting to train your dog, but not the joggers fault that his run was interrupted by your overexuberant pet puppy.
Your dog was out of control (you said yourself that recall has gone to pot) in a public place. You would have got a mouthful from me too, and I am a dog loving jogger! I've had two dogs, live in a highly populated area, and have never had one jump up at a jogger.
I think you should use a retractable lead (sensibly) for a while.
'It's one of the problems having a puppy that looks like a little teddy bear. I just know those same people would never do it to a staffy.'
Um, they do it with my Rottie...
Abuse isn't really called for when you've got an apologetic owner who is trying to catch their dog, but, it's totally not ok to have your dog jumping at people.
Retractable leads are fine, if used sensibly - I have one, you use it with a harness, you don't let your dog play with it on with either people or other dogs and you hit the button as soon as they start running, not after they've built up speed.
I don't use it often though, it's really just for training because I can't use a long line, I tried, I failed.
Mostly what I do is, put him back on the lead as soon as I see someone - you don't need massively quick reflexes because I'm watching for people in the distance and he's not.
Please don't get a retractable lead, they can cause horrible accidents. A long lead, ie a light trailing lead that you can grab if needed would be better, but ideally just use a normal lead and lots of training.
I saw a lab nearly get its leg sliced off by a retractable lead, lots of blood and yelping. It was playing with another dog (other dog was the one on the retractable lead) and they both got tangled up so impossible to retract the lead and neither dog would recall.
Also v difficult to reel a dog back to you if its running full pelt, you might have to let go of the handle and dog runs off anyway.
Well he would see your aggressive overreaction as a defensive reaction.
In his mind the dog is attacking him when it jumps up at him....he isn't going to wait to let it bite him first.
He would try running first but dogs are quick so if he couldn't out run it then that would be his next step.
MrsWolowitz, I think when people are scared they go into 'fight or flight' mode. Flight isn't a lot of use because the dog just runs after them.
Kicking dogs, and definitely kicking puppies hard, isn't ok, but you need to understand that people aren't necessarily doing it because they think it's acceptable but because it's a reflex action that when something you are scared of jumps up on you, you fend it off as hard as you can.
If this happens and a dog gets injured it is as much the fault of the owner who let the dog jump up on a stranger as it is of the 'aggressive' person who did the kicking. Just as if a parent lets a child pet a strange dog and the dog is nervous and snaps at them, the parent is at fault.
Understanding that some behaviour is instinctual has to go both ways.
my dh is terrified of dogs too. He wouldn't kick one, but he'd prob try to run faster to get away. Last sunday I came across a terrier who took offense to me running towards his owner, and so began growling and barking, and pushing his nose towards my feet. I stopped dead, dog content to back off, maintain position in between me and owner, growl and bark some more - warning me to keep my distance and I waited for the owner to come and fetch it.
Owner - Oh he won't hurt you, he is only trying to chase you!
Well, firstly I don't WANT your dog chasing me, and secondly it isn't, it is upset and if I had carried on, it would have got increasingly upset and possibly bitten me. DH being terrified, would have sped up, and probably got bitten.
If you love your dog, learn to understand it and control the bloody thing! It reminds me of a video I saw on facebook about dogs that suddenly 'turn' with no warning. Dogs DO generally warn, the owners just don't pick up on the signals.
Retractable leads are not the answer neither. dog needs to learn recall, and be on a short lead when the lead is needed. thegriffon's advice was perfect and I've seen this practiced when I've been out and about too.
Many people are terrified of dogs. Many dog owners are ignorant fuckers, to use your terminology mrswolowitz
mrswolowitz Yep. Apparently the dog was only playing and I should have 'stood my ground' instead of 'going over like a baby' (I'm pretty small and slight. The dog was pretty big. I do fall over a lot (dyspraxic) but I think anyone my size would have gone over if jumped on by that dog)
I really despise dog owners who play the 'only playing' card. Despise them.
Russians - I can believe it sadly.
MrsWolowitz, dh isn't an aggressive fucker at all. He's scared of dogs and out of fear there is a could chance he could act in a disproportionate manner. In his mind he is totally defending himself and he feels he needs to warn the dog off in this manner to do this. He's the most unaggressive person ever.
Fragile you are much more likely to cause accidents with a retractable. I've seen one of those bring down a bike, messily. You need to train your dog or only take him off lead on grassy areas with no running/cycle paths. A runner running not on a path knows what he or she is potentially letting themselves in for, so that's not so bad. Retractables for dogs that won't come back are a terrible idea if you aren't actually trying to injure cyclists and runners - because when it comes to it I doubt you will choose to yank your dog back by the neck to stop it tripping a runner.
viva I know there are some decent dog owners. But some dog owners are among the rudest most entitled and just plain ignorant people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. the owner of the dog that caused my accident laughed. As I lay there bleeding in many different places including my head and face. And told me her dog was just playing. And walked off.
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