Is language delay associated with humming and running in circles

[Kurly]

DS (3) increasing hums alot and runs in big circles. The humming is normally at home but the running in circles is at home and when we are out. Am wondering if this is associated with langauge delay or is this a fifferent issue?

[StarOfValkyrie]

Well it sounds to me like some kind of sensory seeking behaviour, which actually goes alongside quite a few conditions.

Have you had any professional input?

[Kurly]

Yes from SALT and dev paed. But they did not ask about this type of thing and I didn't think to mention it!!

They asked about lining up toys and spinning wheels which he doesn't do but he doesn't actual play with anything much

[StarOfValkyrie]

Get an appointment at BIBIC perhaps. The don't diagnose but they do a very in depth assessment and will hint to you what you should consider investigating further.

[genieinabottle]

My DS has speech and lang. delay and very likely asd. Going through dx process atm.
DS is 4.6, he does hums and walks or runs in circles, spins on himself too.

When he was 3, his speech and lang. was a lot worse than what it is now, and the humming was also a lot worse than it is now.
Well it seems to have changed, last year he would hums constantly 'hmmmm... hmmmm...' sounds, now he is humming sounds almost like little tunes.

I think his humming is a stim. Throat-clearing noises, running in circles, toe-walking, twirly fingers,... are his stims too.

[SanctiMoanyArse]

You know, could be many things.

Could easily be hearing or other sense impairment, or something like sensory issues which (as Star says) make him sensory seeking; that can be anything from general sensory impairment to dyspraxia to an ASD (and ASD in itself being as wide a range as NT or almost)!

In truth, I would start by looking at the triad of impairments: if your child has impaired social interaction (and not nexcessarily withdrawn- ds1 can be but ds3 is the opposite, full one all the time), impairment of imagination (this is more taking a colander and making a hat than putting dools in a house and acting a known sequence) and communication issues then they need assessing for an ASD however scary as it sounds, ASD is not a signioficant indicator of life outcoime: many people with an ASD go on to live full lives and indeed some wopuld not be recognisable as having an ASD later on, but good early input is a likely influence on outcome.

And it could well not be an ASD: ds2 does all this and doesn't have one, he has dyspraxia, mild. Overall, not a biggie.

[genieinabottle]

Kurly, just read a question you asked in one of my thread about my ds's asd traits.
I'll try answer here as briefly as i can but the list is long.
My DS is biggest isssue is with speech and lang. (he is p/t in a sen lang. unit), but he has other issues which affect him more mildy than his lang. problems.

He has diffculties socialising with peers, joining in games at nursery in an age appropriate manner. I mean he is not a total recluse, (although he used to be when he was 2 and started at nursery), but his approach is awkward, he doesn't always understand what they say, how to play, he struggles with sharing, waiting for his turn, he copies his peers, totally mimicry what they are doing as a mean of interaction,...
He has sensory issues with some textures, foods, hates gooey things, getting his hands dirty, doesn't like sudden noises (he covers his ears), he is sensitive to some lights and goes into overdrive in supermarkets and shops. And he has some stims as i mentioned in my other post.
He has some delays with his imaginative play, quite repetitive, likes cars and trains, limited pretend play, never drawn a pic that ressemble anything, never named a toy, quite a concrete way of playing.
His has some rituals he likes to do in a specific way in some situations, especially during transitions like leaving the house, getting in and out of the car,...
Hope this list helps, but bear in mind that asd is a wide spectrum and all children are different.

[SanctiMoanyArse]

Genie don't know if it helps, but if your child gets a dx of ASD, being able to mimic is a great skill that will enable learning. A really useful and positive aspect.

[RaggedRobin]

my ds (4.6) has a language disorder and sensory processing disorder. at 3.6 all this looked a lot more like asd, but at the moment his salt, paediatrician and ot are saying that it is not asd, but rather the two disorders i've mentioned. his ot says that these disorders often arise together.

i'm still not entirely convinced and we are waiting to see how he gets on when he goes to school.

[RaggedRobin]

oh, meant to say, he runs round in circles while reciting scripts. i'm assuming this is a sensory seeking stim.

[genieinabottle]

Sancti, yes Bibic also told us that.
DS up to age 3 did not copy, had great difficulties to join in actions for nursery rhymes for instance. Then suddendly he stepped up a gear and started to imitate other children. By this i mean totally imitate, actions and words (as much as he can due to his speech delay). But we can see how by imitating he will re-enact what he has copied so i guess it is a tool for him to learn.

[Kurly]

Thanks for your replies

His social interaction with adults is good but very full on. Pulls our faces shouts etc.. but limited with peers. He does not play with the other children at nursery but does interact with brother and sister.

He hardly plays at all, prefers physical activities like running, kicking etc.. I have never seen him pretend play but he did copy the paed feeding a doll at assessment. he had never done it before or done it since so not sure what proves.

My problem is that we are not getting any help/input at the moment. The SALT has seen him twice since march she is coming again this week. Other than that we are waiting for a placement for him at a child development nursery in September. Should we push for them to look at him again or just wait til September?

[RaggedRobin]

it might be a good idea to ask for a referral to an occupational therapist.

[RaggedRobin]

sorry, i was evicted from the computer before i'd finished

o.t. should be able to give you and your ds support with sensory seeking behaviours. have you read the out of sync child? it might give you some ideas too.

[SanctiMoanyArse]

Face pulling is a clasic ASD symptom tbh, so I would be pushing for assessment now. Copying the Paed with t oy is meaningless but you know, so many Paeds do not relaise this! The understanding in the health professions about what is relevant play is tiny (I am 2 modules into an MA in ASD and we have done much on play).

[Kurly]

Sancti I thought so with the doll feeding. she almost forced him to . Didn't know that the face pulling was significant so I will make sure I mention that to them as well. Thanks MA sounds interesting how do you fit it in??

RaggedRobin will have a look at that book

[SanctiMoanyArse]

Kurly very part time hours (one eening a wek) and lots of midnight work... however finances looking shaky so probably going to have to defer a bit.

Mention the face pulling, it's common. And do think about BIBIC- they are well worth a shout.

[genieinabottle]

..."Sancti I thought so with the doll feeding. she almost forced him to"....

when DS had his first salt assesment at age 2.3, she had to show him 3 times how to feed the teddy, he just wasn't remotely interested in it, eventually he picked up the spoon and briefly brought it to the teddy's mouth.
I told her DS never fed teddies or played in that way, my comments were ignored and on the report she wrote that DS could demonstrate good imaginative play.

[SanctiMoanyArse]

They really can be delusional about what is good play: not all, ours pointed out routines and the ike we hadn't picked up on, but so many people are less fortunate.

Around ehre SALT do most play assessments and the specialist SALT prefers to do it herself but based on the fact she is a bit on a cross- Wales expert I guess most areas don't have ehr (and before anyone is jealoous she's never met either of mine, her lists were too full to accept the referrals)

[SanctiMoanyArse]

course you can email me, no need to ask.

Yep trhe dyspraxias etc do ahve the same range of sensory stuff: ds2 is dyspraxic and as sensory seeking as his siblings. Always ahs been, done the whole licking thing as a toddler and everything. it's quite ahrd to separate disorders (and tehre's a strong argument that dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dyslexia, SPD, SID are all part of one massive spectrum disoreder anyway- there's such an overlap) but IMO with ASD the social / communication is the criteria: your child has language, obsessions, sensory- could be anything. Chuck in some empathy issues and social communication disorders and you're looking at an ASD (not theory of mind; that applies to my boys but not a lot of others).

[StarOfValkyrie]

These professionals ARE very frustrating. First the school tell me how great his language is when what they are referring to is simply context appropriate echolalia, then the SLT reports that what I am thinking is original language is echolalia. - er, not it isn't, unless we all say 'make it big' when we mean we've drunk all our juice and want some more!

[Kurly]

Have e-mailed BIBIC this evening and after talking to dh have decided to push for further assessments so we will see what happens