This is what the school has noticed...

[pepsi]

My ds has had problems for a while, the school have just written to the paedatrician with how he presents at the moment. When we saw the paedatrician in March his gut feeling was that it wasnt aspergers. Any advice:- He is was 5 in March.

Plays independently/alone or alongside others
Hugs other children around the neck
Rarely makes eye contact unless prompted and then only 2 seconds
Is able to cross legs but chooses not to
Muddled speech when talking to others
Mumbles/sings/makes noises to himself
Unaware of other childrens feelings when he has hurt them.
Hands on ears when he hears loud noises and makes noises himself loudly
No understanding of the need to play quietly, at times, when whole class playing.

Sounds quite bleak, but he plays with his sister, hugs nicely at home, eye contact lasts longer with us. Can speak nicely when I say "speak in your 5 year old voice". Wants wrong with talking and singing to yourself when playing? Is aware of my feelings if he hurts me by accident, doesnt intentionally hurt any of us at home...accept dd3 when she is annoying him....cant blame him sometimes. Does like to make noise when playing but can easily and often play quietly. We are seeing the Ed Phsych this month too so hopefully she will be able to help. All of these traits exagerate so much at school. Is he ok and just struggling at school? He was half deaf due to glue ear until he was 3.

[coppertop]

The school's description sounds a lot like my ds1 tbh but I have no idea how much of ds1's behaviour is due to ASD and how much is just him being a 4yr-old boy (almost 5). Some/all of these things could be related to his glue ear, eg looking at people's mouths when they speak rather than their eyes.

Did the Paed say why they had ruled out AS?

[pepsi]

The paed didnt say he had ruled it out he said "his gut feeling", he hasnt had any tests or anything.

[pepsi]

His gut feel was because ds did make initial eye contact when he started a conversation and I think because were didnt report any problems at home, we can take him anywhere, restaurants and stuff, dont have tantrums and he plays with his sister ok.

[coppertop]

The eye contact issue can be a bit misleading tbh. Some children do fit the stereotype and have no eye contact but there are others who have such strong eye contact that they pretty much stare at people. In between are the ones like my two boys who both have good eye contact when they first meet a person but then it tails off into nothing.

The lack of tantrums sounds really positive IMHO.

Just looking back at your first post I see that they say he puts his hands over his ears when he hears loud noises. Don't most children do that??? It would help if they gave examples of what seemed loud to your ds. In any case, the history of glue ear could explain that too.

It's good to see that the school are at least interested in what may be going on. That in itself is a very positive thing IMHO.

[mizmiz]

Agree with the hands over the ears comment coppertop!!!
It's so easy to 'clinicalise' every action,noise and movement! Constantly having to remind myself not to do it.

[Katemum]

Can I just join in? This does sound a lot like my ds all the way through but especially the hands on the ears bit. I really have no concerns that there is anything wrong with him but when he was assessed by a speech therapist she felt that he would really struggle in school because of his absolute lack of concentration, I just hope this is something he will grow out off.
Anyway am rambling, my point, DS also does the hands over his ears at any loud noise, parties, lawnmower, drills etc. He also had glue ear in both ears and had gromits in and adenoids taken out. The hatred of noise thing occured following the op so was IME not a sign of anything more sinister.

[mizmiz]

Did salt give you ideas for improving his concentration?

[Katemum]

Sorry Mizmiz, was that question for me? No she didn't, it was an assessment and when she came to the conclusion that he was improving following his op she wasn't much interested. He has improved since he saw her, but he starts school this september and I still think he will find it a struggle, he really likes to do his own thing.

[Davros]

The ear covering ASD behaviour is different to how anyone else would do it (of course!). It isn't usually just for loud noises but for different "qualities" or noises or because of overload which could be any type of noise or a combination. People with ASD also usually press the front of their ear rather than putting their hands over their ears iyswim. This may also be a way of altering the sound quality and getting a feedback feeling and a way of cutting off.
Pepsi, I would probe more about AS being discarded, it may not be right but I would want a bit more than his gut feeling ! Have you looked at the NAS website? www.nas.org.uk

[christie1]

My son has the same issue and we are looking at asbergers. It is not a problem, he is unique and quirky and we love him but what we are finding is the world is not so kind and he already (at age 6) feels at times he is wierd and has no friends. So for this reason, we are looking for help to understand and help him with making friends, or even one good friend. You may notice in school the reaction of other kids is when it becomes a problem.

[pepsi]

The hand over the ears thing confuses me because at home he is ok, the only thing he does it for are things like when he can hear a bus but cant see it. When the hoover goes on he covers his ears and makes noises but I though that this was mainly because it stopped him from hearing the TV. He doesnt mind the hair dryer or music. Interessting he loved the hoover prior to grommets. Academically they say his is fine. He does have hypotonic muscles so Im not sure if the leg crossing thing is down to that, could just be he prefers not sitting like that, whats the big problem with how he sits? I dont understand that one. The paed hasnt ruled out Aspergers, when we have seen him ds displays totally and completely normal behaviour and he seems surprised that we are there at all. The odd behaviour comes when he is at school. Is this common with aspergers children. At home he is loving, loves cuddles and knows when he has hurt me and says sorry. why does he not show this at school?

[coppertop]

It's not uncommon for a child with AS to be fine at home and have problems at school - or vice versa. There have been times when ds1 has been lovely at home and it's been a shock to hear that he's been pushing other children and having meltdowns at school. There have also been times when I've been worried because ds1 has been screaming and lashing out at home but has been a little angel at school. Again, I'm not saying that your ds has AS.

[christie1]

I have been doing some research on asbergers/high funttioning autism and these kids are very loving and connected to their families but have difficulty with social interactions with their peers. We though our son was shy and introverted but we know now it is deeper than that. Academically he is doing great, his teacher loves him, but he is noticing he can't make or keep friends and spends alot of time circling a tree at recess rather than join in with other kdis. There are other small behavoirs, fussy eating, clumsiness, difficulty printing, lack of eye contact, and others that seem to point more and more to AS. We are going to get an assessment done and try to find ways to help him interact socially which can be the real challenge for these kids.

[Davros]

Having a 48 year old sister with Aspgers, the sooner the better imo and you can probably limit a lot of the problems and help him understand and manage situations.

[Saker]

Some of that sounds like my ds2 who is 4 in August. There is still some debate among the professionals as to whether he is ASD but most don't think so, and although it was something I worried about in the past I really don't think so now. However he does have some autistic traits especially at nursery and doesn't interact with the other children. He also can talk loudly all the way through circle time when all the other children are sitting quietly. Like your son he has low muscle tone and he also has poor motor skills and a speech sound disorder probably due to his motor problems. His language can also get muddled. They won't diagnose it yet but dyspraxia/DCD is a possibility for my son and this does overlap in some ways with ASD. I'm not saying your ds is dyspraxic but it might be worth considering also as he goes through the system.

Incidentally a friend of mine whose daughter had glue ear for a long time but can hear okay now, says she can be still be oversensitive to loud noises like she is hearing them for the first time.
Also my "normal" 5 year old talks and sings to himself all the time when playing although what he says is coherent and makes sense.

[pepsi]

Had the Ed Physch appointment yesterday. She has observed ds a few times at school. It was all rather positive. She said although ds was pointed out to her had she not have known who he was she wouldnt actually have picked him to be the child she was coming to see. She said normally she can tell. She observed him doing some teamwork in a small group of 5 and he was doing the organising and getting it right and helping the others! He sat listening to a poet visiting the school and concentrated on it. Has now stopped cuddling other children around the neck. She wont see him again until he is in Year 1 and the situation is to be monitored but overall I felt he was doing rather well. Saw Speach therapist last week and she said his vocabulary was good and he is only slightly immature in his speech for his age but he was half deaf until he was 3. His hearing is a bit down again and they are going to put the grommets in again. He still makes a lot of noise when playing cars and trains and stuff at school and doesnt stop making the noise when asked. I think this is the main problem, he doesnt do what he is asked unless it suits him. Is the command not getting through or is is just ignoring his teacher I wonder. Academically he is doing fine. On Level 3 reading books now. eye contact still not good and is coming home with wet pants ever day for some reason. I think the picture looks good now and am really hoping that his problem are just social immaturity related to his hearing problems. Anyone else had an ed physch appointment that was so positive? Does it mean he is ok really or is he too young for things to be seen yet.

[LIZS]

ds hasn't seen an Ed Psych yet but the Learning Support teacher who saw ds at the beginning of this academic year similarly commented that ds didn't stand out in the class particularly as a child with problems. We also took that as a good sign. It is a relief to have someone independent recongise your child's "normality" once your own doubts have taken root.

However I think there can also be a negative side to this in that our ds' issues aren't so problematic that he demands attention, either by disinterest, inattention or bad behaviour. His teacher has admitted to me that she does forget that he has issues as he can cope as well as the others, but not consistently. That I found worrying because it makes me question whether he really gets the individual attention he could benefit from. This is in a class of 13 with a teacher and part time assistant!

Sounds as if you have had a good report and you should take some comfort from it, but do keep on top of the school and the professionals to monitor him and make sure he continues to get the support he needs.

[coppertop]

It's been commented on a few times over the past year or so that sometimes the professionals who are supposed to be observing ds1 have had to actually ask the teacher/pre-school staff which child ds1 is as he just doesn't stand out so much anymore. However, once he's been pointed out to him they have been able to spot his more subtle ASD behaviours and quirks.

It sounds like a positive report. It's good that they plan to see him again at a later stage just in case things have changed.

[pepsi]

Is this how Ed Physchs work, I dont know why but I thought they would come in more regularly and spend time alone with ds. Although Im really pleased about how it all went we are in someways still in limbo. DS with be 51/2 when he starts Year 1 and I wonder when if he really does have a condition it will really show as at the moment I dont think anyone could say either way. We are seeing the paedatrician again in October and shall send him a copy of the ed physchs report once it arrives. I think the best thing we can do as a familyat the moment is just forget about all of this issues and enjoy the summer.

[Davros]

Pepsi, it does sound very positive, esp listening to the poet, more than I could do I agree that you should keep a bit more of an eye on things, which I'm sure you'll do naturally, and having Paed appt in Oct sounds good. Its not worth being paranoid, just a bit more aware as issues can start small and best nipped in the bud if anything does worry you. Maybe he ignores the teacher sometimes because he knows he can get away with it?

[pepsi]

Yes he could be doing that, his teacher is very young, I think this is only her second year. I think she knows her stuff but Im not sure if he sees younger adults as a bit of a push over. When he was at his previous school he had a teacher for a couple of terms who was in her 50s and had been a reception teacher since the year dot. She had real presence and I think he responded to that. She was so enthusiastic and her eyes where so interested in everyythig. His current teacher doesnt have that little something.

[Cosmo74]

Pepsi

I so know what you mean about the teachers - some seem to have the way of dealing with our kids and others just don't seem to want to know - my DS is 5 and in Primary 1 - this is when all his problems were noticed - last October - lack of concentration/attention, not doing what he is told, being noisy (talking/singing/shouting) when teacher is addressing class etc.. it doesn't help that he is on this 3rd teacher this year who is now job sharing with teacher 2 - teacher 2 is great - she really has that something extra and always tells me not to worry etc.. but teacher 3 is constantly treatening DS which is leading him to behave worst - sorry I am going on here and hi-jacking your tread - just wanted to say that you are lucky that the school are doing something about it - we are still waiting for someone to come and see DS - TBH he only has 6 weeks left of school and cannot see them getting anyone in before then. I just cannot wait til he finishes for summer so I do not have to send him into school - as I know it is stressing him out again because of teacher 3 - he has started to soil himself again - something he stopped when he had teacher 2 only for a period of time - I am the end of my tether and hate sending him into school.

They should be able to tell as soon as he starts year 1 if there is a problem and seem as if they will get it sorted for you.


Take care.

[Davros]

Cosmo, the whole school experience as it is now sounds awful for all of you I suppose just try to last out until summer and give yourselves a break and hope for someone better next year and some action.