need some input

[needmorecoffee]

I'm doing a report on inclusive education and need some input from non-disabled parents. Already got input from disabled adults, disabled kids and disabled parents but we need to hear non-disabled views on inclusion given the vast majority of disabled poeple have non-disabled parents.
So
Thoughts on inclusion vs segregation and WHY.
Is it lack of suitable support or the actual impairment that leads to parents wanting segregated education?
What do parents know about the sociel model vs the medical model and which do they subscibe too, as it were.
If a child got a suitable level of support plus all the required equipment (look, a flying pig) would more parents be happy about inclusion?
Do parents think co-location will take away their rights to insist on an inclusive education?

Any thoughts would be welcome as we are meeting with the council next week. ta muchly

[anonandlikeit]

Hi NMC, I don't know enough about the models to comment but from a parents perspective the passion for inclusive education must start with the head teachers of the ms school otherwise the child & parents are never going to be truly included.
You can teach a child inside a ms building, add a ramp here & there but for the child to truly be taught alongside the non disabled children the attitude from the teaching staff have to want that child in their class.

Its not only about trying to make the disabled child access the ms curriculum, its about looking at the lesson & making that lesson accessible to ALL the children in the class.

Why inclusion, well for us we live in a small community & whatever level of independence ds2 achieves he will one day be an adult in this community & sn or nt the relationships he develops as a child may help him in the future.
I don't want ds as an adult to be seen purely as the disabled bloke around the corner. I want him to be known by his name in the same way his brother is IYKWIM.
tbh I don't believe that he will always be able to cope with MS (even with support) but any links we can help him build by being part of our local community the better.

When inclusion truly works best in a school the non sn children also benefit.

But whatever changes in both attitude & equipment ms is never going to be the best choice for all children so the most important thing an EA can give parents is Choice.

[magsi]

Hi needmorecoffee

Thought I would share some of my experiences with DS going into mainstream from special school if it is any help.

My son is nearly 7 and has CP (severe right sided Hemiplegia). He has been in Mainstream for nearly 2 years. Initially for us, the thought of him going into mainstream was really scary. I likened it to DS being the goldfish swimming with a load of sharks at the time. He could not talk (at that time) and used a communication aid like a little computer to help him. he wears splints on both legs and was still (and still is) in nappies. There were so many things to make him stand out to his 'normal' piers, I was terrified of 'leaving the system', but all the time I was thinking that his special school was not the 'real world', but mainstream school was.

We had been advised by his special school that he would not get the necessary stimulation mentally where he was and should give him a go at mainstream, because he should be in a school where he would be on the same level cognatively. So, that was that, after a very long summer holidays, DS started with a split placement and eventaully ended up full-time at mainstream.

At first we had quite a few problems with things not being in place. Ds has a full-time 1:1 all day. There was no nappy bin and I found dirty nappies stuffed in his school bag for me to dispose of at hime! However, this was soon recitified after a couple of weeks. The OT had to make sure he was 'placed' right in the classroom so he could see the teacher without turning his head too much. He has vision problems. He had to get a writing slope. He has an IEP (which I think is followed). There were a few letters to the head on my part because I know that if things are on file, they cannot be ignored. All in all though, the initial problems were just teething ones and once they were sorted, I was just left worrying about the social side of things.

DS was a bit of a novelty at first, with his little communication aid. It was a good tool to attract a lot of kids in the beginning. The class were good at accepting DS and added posters with makaton around so they could "speak to DS". The girls would be the most helpful, getting his coat etc, helping with doors. I had to go into school on one occasion and was really happy to see DS playing racing accross the playground with a good group of friends joining in too.
DS has been fortunate to have some good 1:1's and I think this has had a big implication as to him joining in with playground games etc. He has been gently coaxed into joining in and observed from a distance. This has been really important for DS, as I think the 1:1 should 'shaddow' the child, so he/she doesn't become solely reliant on the 1:1. This was one of my first initial worries, but it hasn't turned out that way.

At first, I have had to throw as much information to the school about Hemiplegia e.g. behavioural issues and frustrations not because he is naughty, but because of his disability. The 1:1 and teacher both went on a course to learn to administer diazipam if he had a fit. They have also been on makaton signing courses. So generally, the school have made a real effort to do all that is necessary to accommodate DS.

However, apart from all the things that have been put in place to 'manage' everything about DS, the biggest difference we have noticed is the social changes in him and how he has come on 'leaps and bounds' since being included in MS. His talking has improved ten-fold. This is solely because he has been 'sorrounded by chatter' and obviously there is the strong urg to WANT to talk like his piers and his has help enormously aswell. He is growing up in his local community and is always invited to parties etc. He has become part of the community we live in, not that of a school 15 miles away. he has firm friends now and goes on playdates. He is growing up with children who will be in his class until he leaves school which we have come to realise is the most important thing to us.

Equally as important, is the fact that his friends are very accepting of him and realise that not everyone is the same. I remember when I went to school there was 1 person in a wheelchair and that was that. At DS's school, there is about 350 pupils and about 50 of them have special needs. The kids are growing up learning that everyone is different and are equally accepted. This is massively important to me.

It has been a reall success so far, but don't mention Secondary School to me, because I will turn tail and run away .

Hope you have had some ideas with what I have written.

[TotalChaos]

agree completely with Anon. I think inclusion requires a good attitude and skills from all the school staff and a thoughtful approach to the school environment, such that a child with SN can meaningfully participate in all lessons. some small group work or 1-1 work may be appropriate for specific issues but the vast majority of time should be spent in the main class with support. I think that lack of suitable support in m/s plays a big role in people wanting a specialist setting.

Not sure how a language impairment would sit within the social v medical model. I suppose I have seen it as primarily fitting the medical model - but equally there is a social aspect to it, in that it is important not to judge people for struggling to respond verbally and I suppose to use of visual cues.

co-location - I don't think it will reduce rights to inclusion, as I think that proper specialist facilties are expensive so there will still be the same issue for many of kids struggling in m/s not being able to go to a specialist setting without battling with LEA etc.

Personally - DS is in m/s with virtually no support - he manages surprisingly well in a structured setting, despite the language problems - ideally I would want him to have a split language unit/m/s placement or to have outreach from language unit staff. He has had a reasonable amount of NHS SALT contact this year but god knows whether that will be the same next year.

[needmorecoffee]

thanks for the input so far ladies - magsi, my dd 4 started mainstream school (sp quad CP, no speech, nappies etc etc) and it was the 'chatter I wanted her surrounded by. The SN school was very quite with kids strapped into chairs waiting to be 'done' too. At MS, dd is part of the class in every way - this school has 2 severely physically impaired kids in each class, full resource base and full support. There are also kids with language disorders, ASD and learning disabilities and they also have full support and inclusion.
I reckon its how all schools should be but they aren't. Which is why dd isn't at the local 5 minute away school but travels 3 miles to this one. the local school tried but couldn't cope.

I am interested in hearing from parents with kids with ASD and learning disabilities because its their voices that are often missing from disability equality debates and inclusion polcies (although sawa show by the Misfit Theatre company yesterday. All members have LD's. They were very funny and also read some poems about how they are treated which were very moving. And I blub at the slightest thing nowadsy!)
My son with aspergers did not cope in school but was too bright and verbal for any SN school. there was no real place for him in the education system. So we home educated. Not everyone can do that. 10 years ago ASD type disorders were either undiagnosed or not as common so the kids didn't get support and were labelled 'difficult'.
I went toa school nearby for kids with LD's. It takes a wide range of children but what I found was low academic expectations. Many of those kids could have taken GCSE's and NVQ's but weren't given that chance. the attitude was terrible. I'd like to hear about good SN schools too, especially for kids with LD's.

Its why we are doing this report, we want to hear from the voiceless and that means parents. It took a lot of ranting from me because one problem with the disability movement and thus those who get in positions to advise the education authorities is on the whole they don't have LD's, and may never have met anyone with LD's so they get forgotten in policies.

My own opinion is that there should be inclusion if possible with full support and no narking about over budgets or not listening to parents (there goes that flying pig again ) but there should also be SN schools for those children who would benefit most. Fit the education to the child and not try and fit the child to the system. but SN schools need to act as educational places, not holding pens.

So, more comments please

[r3dh3d]

Well, I am strongly anti inclusion or at least inclusion-for-the-sake-of-it. And rabidly anti the disability rights movement, which I feel is both partial in the sense of only representing part of the disabled community (and tbh the least disabled at that) and in the sense of pushing for what suits them at the expense of everyone else.

Very cynically, is there any point in putting my views forward, though? I'm not disabled. So my views are not only unimportant but inherently politically incorrect and to be suppressed. If you put my views in your report, won't it taint the value of the rest of your report and make it easier to ignore?

[amber32002]

Needmorecoffee,

Not sure I count, as I have a disability (ASD), but I'm a parent of a son who's dyslexic and who has absolutely struggled for a fair education over the years. As I was saying to the autism psychologist this week, if I had been placed in a normal school setting, I'm 100% certain I would not have coped. It was only the structure and routine of my schools that enabled me to access the work. With son, he is desperately in need of clear instruction and the right help, but it has been a nightmare getting it. We eventually had to go private. I love the idea of inclusion IF it works for the child and the rest of the class. If it doesn't, it's daft to try it. So I'm pro-choice.

[needmorecoffee]

I don't think so. Could you write why you are ant-inclusion and is it for some impairments or all impairments?
This is why I insisted we had parental views because there are a whole section of society being ignored here and its is the parents and carers who know them best.

I am obviously pro the disability rights movement because without them we wouldn't have the DDA, disability related hate crime being a crime and the right to an educaion but I think the most vocal are the paraplegics who becamse disabled and they tend to shove other voices to one side. Bugs the hell out of me. And to be honest, like many many adults they have no real understanding of ASD or language related disorders or learning difficulties.
In our forum, which advises the council I am the ONLY parent. And I'm only allowed because I'm disabled myself. I'm trying to get the constitituion changed to get parents on board too but there's a whole bunch of politics and some of the old guard are a bit anti-non-disableds.
The South Glos DEN does allow parents and carers to become members and have a voice and that was down to me. And the forum has poeple with LD's as advisors and management members. As it should be. Its the other group I'm still working on. Sigh.
remember the early femisnsit - all men are bad, being a mother is traitorous to sisterhood etc etc. Its mellowed over the last 30 years. The DR movements is still stuck in the us and them mentality but it is changing and good things have been done.

Like any groups, there's arseholes and nice poeple

So R3 I will take your views and put them in my report because the council needs to know that parents don't want all SN schools to close and needs to know what parents think are best for their children. Parents are the experts.

[dustystar]

I'm pro choice too. My ds has AS and ADHD and his needs are best met within MS at the moment but he needs good support in order to cope there. We are not sure yet whether he will cope with secondary school even with support. I wouldn't want him to be forced to stay in MS just because of a blanket rule on inclusion nor from lack of funding for a SN school.

As far as models are concerned I think its important that we view things from a bio-psycho-social perspective that takes account of both the medical and the social models. I think subscribing exclusively to either the social or medical models means that you miss out or ignore part of the picture IYKWIM.

[PeachyAndTheSucklingBas]

Oh gdness, hard to answer. I'm restating my request for Sn education next week (2 flyng pigs!) so there must be some answers somewhere.

my guess is that reasons vary. For us, I know that the chool will never grasp what ds3 truly needs: changing routines at no notice, swapping snacks on a whim- little things to you and I, massive for ds3 that have casued a return to wetting in the evenings. A complete failure to take concerns seriously, promises that are repeatedly breached etc etc etc

I think inclusion is fine for the right child. DS3 increasingly seems to find interacting a challenge and I see the happy little boy I had when I was home ed slipping away very quickly and it breaks my heart. They seem to want to mould him to fit the system rather than vice versa. The school itself admits it has massive communication issues (the Head even sent a letter yto that effect)- imagine shoving an almost non-verbal child into the mix, in the knowledge you've been lied to before: it screws you up and causes me to have panic attacks, let alone the tears we have from him.

I have seen excellent inclusion, ds1's school seems really to be trying to keep him despite hige challenges at times and there was a boy at school with severe SP who at least seemed to be in exactly the right environment (acknowledging I was a child so not exactly up on it at the time!). TRhere's a little boy with physical needs in the school as well and the physical changes he needs- chair space, some to carry trays etc- seems to be easy enough for them to adaqpt to: adapting to a completey different mindset where the resultant challenges are experienced by us at home doesn't suit their criteria.

I also think for ds3 he has no experience of kids like himself. I don't want him to feel isolated and alone, but to know he is part of a group of people very like him. He won't get that in this school. At the sn rugby club he thrives very well, but at school is increasingly separate and miserable.

Social model- well from ds3's respective angle, he is included by most people as he looks NT. Instead of facillitating inclusion it causes the opposite effect- on the carnivals he bouncres away merrily untils omeone tries to initiate contact (a wave etc) then freezes, often for quite a while. the disability isn't caused by the lack of inclusion but the attempt of it, iyswim? And no amount of acceptance by society is going to change the fact that if someone does that in the middle of the road and he freezes he will be in great danger.

I don't think there is any point in the medical treatment approach either tbh- I've spent great amounts of time trying to get ds3 to join in therapies or complete activities and he won't comply. Or cannot.

Tbh I think the best approach for ds3 is to have him somewhere where he is valued for what he is rather than what some uneducated bigot thinks he should be, and enabled to develop what he can do- PC usage, etc- rather than focus unendingly and confidence-cripplingly on what he can't, eg writing/ drawing / expressing.

[needmorecoffee]

I must be tired. read that as 'suckling BRAS'

neeeeeeeeeeeeed sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

[PeachyAndTheSucklingBas]

LOL- me too, Dh's work shifts this week an hour earlier- so kids melting down until 1am (and ds2 just coies), THEn as dh home earlier he doesnt feed baby brekkie, I have to get up even erlier to do that too.

And don even start on this mornig (Bas took a tumble due to crap highchaitr restriant, bruise head poor soul)

[HairyMaclary]

I'm going to add my thoughts but as Ds1 hasn't started school yet it may be a bit academic...
DS1 has mild/ moderate CP spastic diplegia; mild SALT issues mostly around interaction with peers, not language in itself; mobility is his real problem but it is not just a physical disability as we are becoming aware of attention and focus issues, again not huge but definitely present.
I have looked and looked at schools both state and private, special, units, ms etc. My conclusion is that in the 35 or so schools I have looked at in the last year I have found 2 that I think will be suitable. Firstly a mainstream primary with lots of experience, lots of children with a variety of mild/ moderate needs and the willingness to provide for each and every child. The other school is a mainstream school with a very integrated unit, the unit takes 7 children per year group (3 form entry into the main school) and is split approx 50% autism type issues and physical disabilities. We are going for the unit with the mainstream as our back up, and to be honest if he doesn't get into the unit I will not appeal as I think he will be ok in ms.
However that leaves about 33 schools that are in no way suitable or equipped to deal with my DS's needs. I found that shocking and very very disappointing. In most cases it came down to the headteacher not understanding what was needed, not having any real idea of inclusion and in the cases of independent schools not wanting to know either. I completely agree with anonandlikeit said about the teachers.
In order for inclusion to work, and I thought my DS was the perfect child for full inclusion, there needs to be much more understanding of what is involved and the support in place for the schools to provide it. In effect what my DS will hopefully have in the unit is co-location on one site and I am hoping that this will continue throughout is school career so that he always has access to the specialist experience that he needs.
Hope this waffle makes sense, but what I am basically saying is I never even considered a special school or unit for my son until I looked at what was available and saw how poor it was. I now realise that inclusion does not work in all cases and only works if it is fully supported, which it is usually not.

[needmorecoffee]

thats pretty awful hairy. In effect it also takes away parental choice too.

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

Is it lack of suitable support or the actual impairment that leads to parents wanting segregated education?

Actual impairment. IN order to learn and to become independent ds1 needs exclusion. He needs a small classroom. But above all he needs locked doors. With physical boundaries he can explore freely and learn. If you remove the physical boundaries he needs an adult glued to him at all times.

What do parents know about the sociel model vs the medical model and which do they subscibe too, as it were.

Part of both. I don't particularly like models that focus entirely on deficits and being fixed (ie the medical model) but I don't think society can remove my son's disability. Unless we got rid of every queue, every car, but even then there would be other dangers (e.g. rivers).

If a child got a suitable level of support plus all the required equipment (look, a flying pig) would more parents be happy about inclusion?

Nope. Over my dead body will my son ever go anywhere near a mainstream school again. They are incapable of providing him with what he needs. I cannot see any possible benefit to him from being there. And most NT's are too caught up in what's normal and what's not to derive any benefit from him.

Do parents think co-location will take away their rights to insist on an inclusive education?

Do you mean units in schools? I'm more concerned that it will take away by rights (not that we have any) to insist on a segregated education. They are supposedly combining 2 SLD schools and opening a combined inclusive unit on a secondary site. I don't want ds1 in the unit and the other SLD school is not right for him whilst his current on is perfect.

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

I feel like r3 really. I think the disability rights movement often have a very odd attitude to LD's, where they think that people with LD's don't really do very much and don't really have opinions and so don't need to be considered. They're the most vulnerably. They often need a nurturing segregated environment so they can grow and enjoy life like the rest of us.

[needmorecoffee]

interesting point about co-location from a pro-SN school. Thanks for that. Its not one I'd thought of.

[wannaBe]

I don?t have a child with sn so maybe I?m not the best person to comment. I do have a disability though so will do so anyway.

I think that for some children with mild conditions such as mild ld?s and some physical impairments, inclusion can work. My issue though is children with severe learning difficulties and also some with severe physical disabilities, and if I?m totally honest I don?t think that inclusion is the best option for them.

If we look at why children go to school, the answer is of course to become educated. But the education that is received by an nt child is so vastly different from that received by a child with severe learning difficulties that even if you put the child with LD?s into a mainstream school he would still be receiving a totally different education and would therefore still not be receiving a mainstream education, he would simply have been thrust into a mainstream setting to receive his different education. That?s not inclusion at all IMO.

A child with severe learning difficulties, and also to an extent a child with physical disabilities needs to learn independence in a way which nt children do not, and in a way in which adults who teach nt children just don?t understand.

I went to a school for the blind, and I honestly believe that I would not have had the independence that I do had I gone to a mainstream school. People who don?t understand visual impairment are far more likely to just do something for a blind person rather than teach them how to do it for themselves.

Similarly children with severe LD?s aren?t educated to have a great career when they leave school, they need to learn the life skills that they simply cannot learn in mainstream, again either because the adults don?t have the understanding, or because the environment is not safe.

And if you have one child with a severe disability in a school full of children that do not, that child will be different, and will be seen to be different, whether he is in a mainstream setting or not. And children will notice that, whether they have grown up with the child in their class or not. So why not put a child in an environment where he can be with his peers, who are like him, rather than forcing him to conform to a norm which he is unable to conform to?

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

I agree with wannbe.

I want ds1 to be able to access a curriculum that is meaningful for him, that means a different curriculum to the one ds2 and ds3 use. Mainstream schools (ime) struggle with that.

[magso]

Hi NMC, My son is 9 with LD and ASD but needs company and to be kept busy. He started in ms and was very poorly supported and frankly left to get into dangerous situations on a daylie basis. His language came on mixing with nt children but most other skills dropped back.
He had no specialised teaching, got 10 minute salt a term and was excluded and injured regularly. He also lost desirable skills, went down the p scales, aquired some very disruptive behaviour, and got very anxious and school resistant. He came home for lunch and changes and had lots of toileting accidents. It took years to get the support of a statement and our request for a split placement was turned down. He is now in a special school, with weelky salt, lots of 1:1, independance help and is making slow but steady progress. He is a happier child. We mange some ms contact locally.
I think ds could have been managed if fully supported in ms but would have needed small satellite classes aimed at his level, specialised teaching (ds cannot read and has listening difficulties to name a few barriers), personal support (toileting and feeding)and a secure enviroment (no escaping onto main roads or kitchens!).
I think there is a case for specialised units on shared sites. I attended (briefly) to a rural secondary school with a special unit for children with LD, and a vocational unit and shared facilities (teaching kitchens, sports,and farm/gardens). I sometimes think it is a shame such schools disoppeared.

[filz]

I agree with r3dh3d. I am also really irritated needmorecoffee that you never acknowledge children in sld/pmld/pd schools chatterdespite the fact alot of us have children at special schools that talk. I think if you want non judgemental views you need to consider your own prejudices against children/adults with moderate, severe and complex learning disabilities too

[needmorecoffee]

I don't think I've ever said that. I always refer to dd's ex-school where there is no speech. Its a school for physical impairments only.
As its the only one I have visited I say the school dd went too.

[needmorecoffee]

and in that school none of the kids can speak. I am aware that most other disabled children can talk but in that school none of them did which is why we removed dd.

[r3dh3d]

NMC, you are a model of restraint and rationality in the face of my rantyness. . So, fwiw, I speak! ...

I'm not 100% convinced by either the medical or the social model. If anything, I'd follow a "diversity model", ie that the term "disabled" is so diverse that it's impossible to make the sort of generalisations either model assumes without seriously disadvantaging some subgroup. For some people the medical model works. For others the social model works. Thank god for the social model too, no-one would want to go back to the dark ages; DH's granfather is a long-term wheelchair user and they stopped going on holiday the day he was forced to drag himself up the steps of a charter flight on his knees. So I "get" that, I really do.

On the other hand, DD1 has quite a lot of her brain not working. Physically about 2/3 I think. Her personality and her behaviour is entirely determined by this - it forms who she "is" and I would struggle to cope with any medical miracle whereby she would be removed and replaced by a higher-functioning stranger. But, when she is ill we lose her almost entirely - she sleepwalks through life with occasional flashes of the child she is and still rarer glimpses of the child she "really" is but we cannot see - if that makes sense. She has a pretty poor quality of life - not in pain or anything but there is so little she engages with or enjoys and yes I wish that medical science would come up with a miracle and could give her the same chance that others have for happiness and fulfilment, which is what disability "rights" are about, isn't it? I don't want her to win the Nobel Prize or to talk or even to be able to get her head round the concept of stairs (though that would be handy I admit!)- I just want her to have a bit of a life. The social model cannot deliver it and advocacy which pushes this agenda exclusively works against her interests.

Re: inclusion - it seems to me the huge but incorrect assumption there is that the child would always want to be included, or that it would be in their best interests. DD1 isn't keen on bright lights; from time to time she shrieks her head off in Waitrose. A school trip to a brightly-lit environment would be a bad idea. Because she's at a special school they don't do trips like that, anyway. And when they do trips, there is always a large contingent left behind with an alternative activity so no-one is singled out. However, she does love loud noises so enjoys the fireworks - and the lovely people at the local display let me sit with her on the haybales on the tractor so she could enjoy it safely and without anyone falling over her. That is inclusion, I think, not forcing a child into a school which is inappropriate for them in order to save money. And in which they will be fundamentally unhappy. DD1's school has an ASD-plus stream and the classroom and the methods used in the classroom are heavily adapted to the learning needs of the class. There is no way that an NT child could survive in this classroom because the needs of the two groups are so disparate that no learning model however heavily adapted and diversified could begin to serve both groups. I think that's a good general test, actually. Imagine the absolutely ideal learning environment for your SN child. What would it be like? OK, now impose it on an NT child and see what happens. If it doesn't work for the NT child, then it won't work the other way round either.

Am I right in remembering that Baroness Warnock has gone on record criticising the use to which her pioneering report calling for greater inclusion has been put, btw?

Final thought - some of this is about demographics. The medical model was the result of a higher accident rate and physical disabilities resulting which could be fixed, or adapted for. Then things progressed and there were less accidents but more kids surviving with unfixable physical conditions. So the social model served this group better. But now the incidence of LD, especially SLD and ASD/ADHD etc. is much much higher and still rising - won't get into why, we'll be here all night! The social model imo is now outdated and the disability rights movement needs to get with the program. And I totally agree - as these people can't speak for themselves they should let the parents speak for them or they are effectively gagging the very people they claim to represent.

[needmorecoffee]

Baroness 'people have a duty to die' Warnock. Yeah, she's written a new report.
Totally agree with you re the social model. It makes the impairment the elephant in the room. but its an ongoing theory and later writers acknoledge that impairment is or can be as disabling as barriers etc.

Anyhow, I will be off and turn everything into some type of coherant thingy.
I'm still pushing for parents to be in the forum but they'd have to change the constitution. And there's a fair bit of oppossion.
I don't do politics well and say what I think
Gods know if the council or the LEA will listen. Bristol doesn't have a huge reputation of listening to anyone

[filz]

too right r3dh3d. I would also go as far as to say the parents right to choose mainstream under any circumstances should be taken away too. Schooling decisions should be made with the childs best interests in mind. I find the current system often entertains parents denial about their childs disability in order to save money. A good school experience should help each and every child reach their full potential, whether the school they go to is special or not. Inclusion isnt some magic answer and certainly isnt the way forward for lots of our children

Needmorecoffee, was your daughters school very small? My daughter went to a PD school (about 50 children) and quite alot could talk. Are the mainstream school experienced with non verbal communication?