I think DD might have ASD

[Levi174517]

I joined mumsnet a couple of years ago - but can't for the life of me remember my username. At the time I was looking for confirmation that I know my son best and he couldn't possibly be autistic. The nursery were chasing a diagnosis. Well he was diagnosed with ASD last year - I think he's borderline ASD/NT though as he only scored 12 on the ADOS. Anyway we have accepted the diagnosis, he's full time in specialist provision and the only casualty is my confidence that I know my own kids.

We think his older sister is also on the spectrum but because she talks school disagree. Older sister is 8.

My short query is - if I go to the GP with a list of concerns and ask for a referral does DD have to attend that meeting too? I think the list by necessity sounds very critical and don't think DD would benefit from listening to a list of her idiosyncrasies.

Who do I ask to be referred to? DS was non verbal so saw SALT but DD can speak its just non literal speech that confuses her. Can I ask for a referral direct to CCDS?

This is looking like a novel - sorry about that but here is a list of issues I'd hope to raise with the GP. Does it seem like she might have ASD? Or perhaps an attention deficit disorder?

The reasons she might have are: she doesn't pick up on social cues or non verbal communication; she struggles with empathy and tact; repetitive play; she is very sensitive to textures; she is a very literal thinker.

The reasons she may not have are: school say she doesn't as teacher witnessed her using motherese when talking to an infant once. Also DD did not have delayed speech, she was quite average. She said her first word at nine months and her first sentence at 14 months.

She does not pick up social cues. This is especially true when she tells a joke. She can't understand the joke was funny at first but now has been told too many times its no longer funny. To her if a joke is funny it will still be funny the twentieth times its told. Also if a joke is funny it will be as funny in the maths lesson as in the playground.

She doesn't pick up on signs her audience is getting bored. She doesn't pick up on other people's mood either.

She really struggles with empathy.She will only feel sorry for doing something if consequences affect her directly i.e. you upset your brother so you're not getting to use the wii for half an hour.

Sometimes she will speak without thinking of how it would upset others. She has told me "I really wish you would hurry up and die because I want to get you a really nice dead people vase (urn) and I want to look at it and remember I love my mum".

DD came home upset that other girls were calling her mean because DD didn't like a made up game. We explained sometimes people get upset if you don't like their ideas. DD practised saying " I promised to play something else with other friend; perhaps you can play with other friend". The next day DD went into school and said, "I don't want to play your game. It's not that the game is rubbish - its really not. It's just that you're boring and I don't like you".

She is literal. An good example would be homework. She was asked to draw the things in the home that have a right angle in them. She got very upset thinking she had to draw every single thing with a right angle.

Another example was a task to write a newspaper report about when an alien came to Earth. DD eventually wrote a short story about an alien arriving on Earth. She refused to do the report as a newspaper report is factual and aliens aren't fact.

She compartmentalises things. When she started school she was very upset that they played in school as school is for work. Similarly we have weekly battles about homework. It's school work and school work is for in school.

School uniform is another issue. If summer dresses are for after Easter then you wear a summer dress after Easter. The fact it's 3 degrees and sleeting is irelevant.

She struggles to make friends and had none until the end of year 3. She now has one friend but isn't flexible in deciding what DD and friend do - only see each other at school.

She is, at times, very unforgiving to her class mates and holds them to impossible standards. Changing your mind isn't allowed in DDland.

DD needs black and white choices. She finds it hard to judge consequences without clear guidelines. Even with simple rules like crossing at a crossing she struggles to remember not to cross if she hears a siren. To DD the red light means traffic stop so all traffic must stop.

DD likes/ needs routine. Ever since she was a baby she has liked a set routine and changes must be carefully planned and ideally made to seem her idea.

She is a fussy eater. She is also quite sensitive to noise and light when she's eating. Smell is another issue; she won't eat her lunch if it tastes of the smell of others lunches.

DD finds it very difficult to read between the lines. It's her target for this term at school and she is getting into trouble for not doing it. DD does not understand sarcasm (spoken or in print) and not only struggles to read between the lines but takes a literal interpretation of whats written on lines.

DD is very blunt. Even when she tries to compliment its often back handed. She thinks nothing of telling an older person they're really old and wrinkled or of asking an overweight person if they know they're fat.

When DD gets an idea in her head its hard to convince her its false. DD heard the expression "your time will come" and has taken it literally she said, "I'm going to be glad when you die mum because then I'll know I've got 8 months to get ready for dad dying". I am 8 months older than DH.

We have to be very careful when buying clothes for DD. None of the clothes must have prominent seams; the material mustn't be itchy/ bumpy or feel weird. The list can be exhaustive.

DD very much has a toy of the moment and refuses to play with anything else.

She is very impulsive. She can say what she ought to have done so its not ignorance. It's almost as if her self control has an off switch.

She finds in hard to focus and pay attention; she is disruptive. She has been asked to leave all the clubs we've put her to because of this reason. At all times DD was the one who asked to go to the activity and was sad she had to leave. We've tried ballet, music, rainbows and beavers.

[Ineedmorepatience]

Absolutely agree with polter take your list.

Google Aspergers and girls or something similar and you will get a load of articles about how differently girls with As/Asd present and hiw they are being missed or misdiagnosed.

I have a brilliant 11 yr Dd who has Asd, having a diagnosis has been very beneficial to her.

Good luck

[Levi174517]

Thank you poltergoose and ineedmorepatience for reading all that. I did realise with hindsight I could've said my question in a heck of a lot less words.

The list will be handy to focus my thoughts at the GP; my mind goes blank otherwise.

I am reading the Tony Attwood article and it seems to apply to DD so perhaps my instincts are correct. I know she won't get diagnosed with something if she doesn't have it but I am suggestible and tend to have every ailment I google.

Thanks again.

[devilinside]

Yes, definitely, my 8 year dd is displaying some of those traits, but not to that extent, and I haven't pushed for a referral....yet. Her brother has an ASD diagnosis and is about to be assessed for ADHD.

I would be showing that list to the GP (that's how I got a referral for myself by the way)

[blueeyedmonster]

I'd definitely take that list to the go as Polter said. I never took ds when I asked for a referral. Go ended up keeping mine so she could put the correct bits in.

Good luck.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Take your list to the GP and insist on a referral to a developmental paediatrician.

I would not take any notice of what school said; many of the staff there are simply not trained in the whole gamut of SEN at all or skilled enough to recognise many children who have additional needs.

[Levi174517]

Thanks everybody it's good to get confirmation I'm not imagining things.

It's strange but the same school that can't see any issues with DD were the ones who pushed for a diagnosis for DS.

When he got his referral I was pretty much a passenger in the whole process. I don't have that luxury with DD.